Work seems to be picking up sightly...

[Daniel M]

Anyone else feeling the same uptick in work?

[GoetzInd]

A little bit. Seems like orders that used to be for 2,000 pcs are now for 200 though. Kind of enjoying the slowdown and only workin 40hrs a week. More time for fun.

 

Mike

[Rob @ Target Machine]

I've been buried with work since the slow down started.

 

Many local shops around here packed up and closed the doors. Others are just hanging on.

 

We hired someone who was just laid off a couple months ago. That shop is also "Done".

 

Quantities have been lower, but I have plenty of new jobs to program.

 

I would like to work Saturdays again though. We're capped at 50 hrs. for now.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

We've been on mandatory overtime for weeks now. The project I've been focusing on is expected to keep keep a couple machines and operators running non-stop for at least the next six years.

[DavidSV]

Are they going to try paying you with IOU's out there?

[X-L Engineering Corp]

We do Aerospace and Medical and thank god for Medical its been keeping some of us at 45hrs some at 40hrs we are definitely down from last year at this time about 20% but the doors are still open!!!

[[email protected]]

quote:

---

thank god for Medical

---

I guess the world is full of sick people

 

We do alot of small engine molds and I guess people have to mow their lawn in tough times too because we haven't worked less that 45 hours since all this crap started. We are now working 65 - 70 hours. We have a little aerospace stuff going on right now too.

 

Hope everything picks up for everyone

[Guest]

we are extremely slow here.he hasnt laid anyone off yet but it has to be getting close.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

All aerospace here and we can work unlimmited overtime. It's been that way for the last three years.

[chris m]

Still ebbing and flowing for us right now; July looks like a tough month.

 

Chris teh hanging on and hopin' for the best

[Midwest]

Workin on a couple rush rush jobs now........plus tryin 2 squeeze in a few small repair jobs. Sounds like we a have 2 more when these R done.......hope it continues.

 

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'd like to work 40 hours. The last several have been approaching 75/wk. and since I'm salary slavery...

 

WIll get to work fro mhome tomorrow and Monday though. Whew, I need it.

[connormac]

We just got a 18 month contract for a group of parts. Of course they want new proto-types by the end of the month. Waiting for 2 other companys to sign 2 more contracts. Right now it seems to be hurry up and wait. But at least the owners aren't talking about lay-offs any more!!!

[Joe788]

I just got done talking to the saleswoman at my material supplier, and their cutting department is backed up 3-4 days for the first time in a LONG time. They are seeing business picking up dramatically. Finally some good news!

[5 AX]

We are all aerospace and defense. Working three shifts 7 days a week. Never really slowed down much.

[cincy k]

Not too much here. Much of the ohio valley seems to be struggling.

[Thermoform Guy]

We have stayed for the most part busy.

Had a production meeting with the owner

yesterday, and he informed us of several

new large POs. Looks like we will be

very busy the rest of the year.

[MotorCityMinion]

1 ad, machining related , in this Sundays paper. Plenty of auctions advertised though. I don't know why it's so bad here. Perhaps it's because a large portion of the shops in the area lack diversity, competitive drive, are not willing to upgrade equipment, invest in employee education, and so on. In the late 80's through the 90's, anybody with a few machining skills in their pocket could choose where they wanted to work and receive decent wages and benefits. Not so anymore.

I'm starting to rant, enough for now.

 

Just saw these @ MichWorks.org. Some pathetic wages indeed. WTF, 5 axis, MC exp, CMM exp and the top of the pay scale is $18.? I made more programming 3 axis maually in the late 90's.

 

 

CNC Mill Machinist Royal Oak $12.00/hr to $17.00/hr 07/07/2009

Program, set-up and operate Mori Seiki CNC vertical and horizontal CNC mills including 5 axis. Must have a minimum of 5 years verifiable experience. Knowledge of MasterCam and some CMM experience useful.

 

CNC Mill Machinist Troy $15.00/hr to $18.00/hr 07/10/2009

The position is available for a day shift CNC Mill machinist. Must have knowledge of set-up, 2D/3D programming using MasterCam software and operation of Fadal CNC mills to include G-Code programming at machine. Experience working with 3D tool paths. Position requires employee possess his/her own tools. Qualified applicants only please.

 

CNC MILL PROGRAMMER/ SET-UP/ OPERATOR Auburn Hills $12.00/hr to $13.00/hr 07/08/2009

MINIMUM 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE. FANUC AND MITSIBISHI CONTROLS MASTERCAM SOFTWARE

 

[ 07-12-2009, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: MotorCityMinion ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...I don't know why it's so bad here...

---

I'm guessing that was a rhetorical question.

 

Michigan is Anti-Business, Michigan's economy lacks the diversity of "healthy" (which is definitely a relative term) economy, HIGH cost of doing business, etc., ad infinitum.

 

I know, Kaliforniastan is making it ALMOST as tough to do business as Michigan.

[Dave.L]

Well, I was going to look on but I decided to reply.

 

“I don’t know why it’s so bad here” well, probably since MI is tied to automotive and automotive is in the toilet, hence, one of the main reasons the whole country and world is in the toilet.

 

As far as the low dollar wages, please allow me to give an owners point of view:

 

I absolutely respect the people who are well seasoned and well trained in the metal working industry. Anyone that is really experienced and good at this work deserves MUCH MORE pay then they are probably getting (as a norm). However, one of the biggest reasons that the pay rates are not going up is because too many shops are cutting the throats of the competition. Sure, competition is good but the fact is that if you charge more than $50-$60.00 per hour you will most likely not get the work. Again, this is the norm not the 2% of shops in highly specialized areas getting $100.00 + per hour. So, when you add up the employee wage, the benefits, the taxes, the workers comp, the machines, the tools, the software, etc, etc, it’s impossible to be profitable charging $50-60 per hour and paying an employee more than $20.00 per hour, UNLESS YOU ARE DOING TREMENDOUS VOLUME. Not to mention that more often than not, you probably can’t bill every hour that an employee works.

 

And also, with all due respect, there are lots of very talented people our there BUT, many of these people can’t make the company money because they are not willing to be very productive (that does not mean they are lazy or without talent). I have had some really talented guys work for me that could not make the company a dollar because they refused to learn how to be profitable. One example was a tool maker that could (and tired too) hold his saw cuts to .0002”, well not really but you get the point. When I am sure most would agree, that’s not going to make money. Don’t get me wrong, it takes good people, with lots of experience and the ability to make excellent decisions regarding everything they do, day in and day out. Those people will get paid the appropriate wages and benefits because they bring true value.

 

In most cases, I don’t think a person in this profession will make more than $25.00 per hour unless they take on some form of management role or position of higher responsibility. It’s sad but true and it’s the fault of the industry for not sticking together. I realize overseas subcontracting has not helped but there are far too many shops doing work for low rates and it hurts us all. Especially now that things are really slow, doing jobs at break even will never be a good business strategy.

 

JM2C

[MotorCityMinion]

It's hard not to reply to this, or at least raise an eyebrow. I hope they find their $17.00 an hour guy, and he smashes the crap out of those machines.

 

There are a ton of shops in the area that are non automotive. What irks me, I guess, is that quite a few shops not located in MI, that are non automotive, seem to be doing fine, and MI is getting stuck with the Auto stigmatism. Old school shops barely had to try to get the work, and did not see the need to expand their capabilities with regards to the many other types of Industries. Now there F%^&ed. There are exceptions though, Roush, for one example, seems to be doing fine. And quite a bit of non production engine work still gets done in MI.

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

I hope they find their $17.00 an hour guy, and he smashes the crap out of those machines.

---

I understand your frustration but this is not a helpful wish for anyone.

 

[ 07-12-2009, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Dave Lelonek ]

[Colin Gilchrist]

Dave, I think you are correct about most shops that haven't invested in technology trying to hit that 50-60 an hour price point.

 

A programmer is a different story though.

 

$25 an hour will not get you any top programmers. Not in Washington state anyway. I haven't made a wage that low since the 90's. I know plenty of programmers who are in the $30+ range easy.

 

Most of them are hourly too, not salaried, so they bring in well in excess of 100k with overtime, which has been slower lately, but I know plenty of places that are still busy.

 

I really think you are looking at it the wrong way. You need to focus on using technology (machines and software) to reduce the amount of machine time required to make a part. If you take an existing job on your machine and reduce the cycle time by 30%, how much would that be worth to you???

 

What if you could double the part output per hour and save 50% on your tooling costs for the job?

 

Seems like it would make a much bigger difference than paying a guy a couple more bucks an hour.

 

I agree that most machine operators that only run a single machine should top out at around $25 an hour.

 

I think the trick then is to find ways to add enough automation that they can run multiple machines at the same time, boosting your bottom line.

 

I know a shop where they pay guys an extra $5 bucks an hour or more if they run multiple machines. It works out great for the guys on the shop floor and for the owners.

 

Robots and bar feeders are also a great way to save money.

 

Have one really talented guy that sets up and keeps the automation running, pay him 100k a year, and he keeps 6-10 machines up and going virtually lights out...

 

I will admit that I've met quite a few guys that weren't very good, but thought they were. I can see how some places would be scared to just start paying someone a high wage without seeing how their skill level and work ethic is.

 

I know that when I was a production machinist for a while, I saw all different calibers of folks. I made it a point to never sit around. I was always tending to the machine. From checking and changing cutters, to tending the chips, cleaning the coolant and the machine, or anything else that machine needed, I was on it.

 

It also happened that the shop I started in was incredibily clean. Everyone their took pride in their work and the company and it showed. It was certainly an exception to the rule from what I've seen though.

 

A lot of the higher end shops in this state are modern and clean, but quite a few of the smaller and even some of the medium shops aren't very clean.

[Dave.L]

Colin,

 

With all due respect, you work for Boeing and not a small job shop so I think your point of view is far different than most.

 

When reading your post one would think that my shop is filled with Bridgeport’s and radial arm drills on a dirt floor (and I know you did not mean it that way). We have high-end equipment and a very clean facility just like most of our competitors. BTW, I am a mechanical engineer with assembly automation background so I am very familiar with process automation. And yes, we have a Mori NL1500SY with a bar feeder and we run it “lights out” when we can get the right work to do so. Our longest run on that machine has been 18 days non-stop (we stopped for 5-minutes during the day to check tools).

 

And I most certainly was not talking about a programmer making $18-20 per hour. I was talking about a floor machinist with setup and some programming topping out at $25.00.

 

quote:

---

I agree that most machine operators that only run a single machine should top out at around $25 an hour.

---

In a job sop, it’s pretty unlikely that an “operator” will make $25.00 per hour. And yes, running multiple machines helps BUT you need to have the right work to do so or it’s becomes counter-productive (read Mike Lynch’s article about this in Modern Machine Shop).

 

http://www.mmsonline.com/columns/multiple-...terference.aspx

 

Of course working hard to get the right work makes a big difference, but not everyone can get aerospace, military and medical work, there is simply not enough of it to fuel all the shops in the US.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...Dave, I think you are correct about most shops that haven't invested in technology trying to hit that 50-60 an hour price point.

 

A programmer is a different story though.

 

$25 an hour will not get you any top programmers. Not in Washington state anyway.

---

You won't get a top programmer in California, Arizona, Nevada or Oregon either for $25/hour.

 

Dave I totally hear you though. I would venture to say better than 95% of workers have absolutely no clue about what kinds of expenses are incurred as a result of having a single employee let alone a dozen or two. Most employees only see the bottom line on their paycheck, and truth be told, that's only roughly 1/2 the story. There's the Worker's Comp(ALWAYS applicable), there's the companies share of health insurance(if applicable), there, the vacation(if applicable), there's the 401k(if applicable), there's the State Disability(ALWAYS applicable), there's the FICA(ALWAYS applicable), payroll taxes, etc, ad infinitum.

 

I whole heartedly agree that an employee needs to view themselves as a "cost center" and handle themselves accordingly. The need to be thiking in terms of what did I do today to cover the costs of employing me? Some days I don't cover ym costs, other days I cover my costs 4x over. Just depends on what is going on for me since I don;t work in a shop most of the time. In my line of work, more often than not I am a non-value added employee and it pains me to no end. I don't like it, but my position is a necessary evil of my type of company. When I am doing turn-keys for customers, we bill my time directly to customers which is great. I like contributing to the company's bottom line in a positive manner for a change.

 

quote:

---

...Of course working hard to get the right work makes a big difference, but not everyone can get aerospace, military and medical work, there is simply not enough of it to fuel all the shops in the US...

---

Actually, there is more demand than shops able to produce that kind of work - at least that's what I see right now. Most shops won't nut up for the kind of Programmer it takes to do that kind of work. The right programmer not only can program that really complicated stuff, he/she can make the setup personnel better.