Unions

[Will Slota]

Just joined a Union Shop. Any comments i.e. pros vs. cons?

 

[Will Slota]

Guess I'll have to take Contract out of my title!?!

[cadcam]

Well all I have heard is you will be limited to certain thinks that they want you do.

If you try to do some thing else that you are not assigned to they will right you up.

 

JM2C

[Will Slota]

Jay,

 

Hi your online right now! ITS MY PLEASURE TO SAY HELLO AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THE POSTS YOU'VE ADDED TO THIS FORUM. I read just about every topic and searched back thru threads for answers and inevitably you and James have contributed to some part of the answer. And yes I was yelling so loud that maybe you could hear me all the way from Fox Island.

[cadcam]

quote:

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And yes I was yelling so loud that maybe you could hear me all the way from Fox Island.

---

I was wondering what that sound was.

 

So I hope it works out ok on the new job.

Please keep us informed.

[mold100]

GOOD LUCK

[Glenn Bouman]

Unionized companies are great if you are:

 

1)lazy

2)do not know much.

 

I started in one fresh out of high school. (did not know much catagory) but still made the same money as the guy teaching me who had 10 years experience.

 

Too much structure.

You will find yourself caged in after awhile.

[chris m]

Hi

 

I'm pretty anti-union (just had a pretty heated discussion at coffee yesterday with a rabid pro-union guy here, as a matter of fact) though perhaps not as much so as Glenn. I worked in a union environment in the construction & trucking industries earlier in life and didn't care for it much, but I've never worked in a union machine shop. I think it greatly depends on the union, the contract, and the union-management relationship at your particular company.

 

Hope it works out well for you!

 

C

 

[ 08-22-2002, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[PE @ IHS]

Glenn is 100% on the money. Unions tend to breed incompetence and ignorance. There is no real incentive to achieve, since your wages will not reflect exceptional ability or lack of ability. Excessive job security causes people to lose work ethic because most people don't tend to work hard if they know that they cannot be fired.

 

Unions had their place in the 19th and early 20th. centuries and can take credit for many of the workplace rights and safety regulations that we enjoy today. They are now bloated bureaucracies that aggressively promote the failed socialist view of the world (i.e. People are OWED jobs, education, healthcare, the rich are responsible for the failures of the poor, etc.)

 

I have been to many union shops and have taught unionized employees from Boeing and Ford. These guys had 3 times the experience that I had (in terms of years on CNC machines), yet I was teaching them the difference between G02 and G03.

 

Jimmy Hoffa is in the right place.

 

Peter Eigler

[Thad]

Glen and Peter, I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I worked in a union shop for 6 weeks. That's all I could stand before I quit. $23.50 an hour, the best benefits package around, but I couldn't stand it. It was mindless work rebuilding forging dies (I was an experienced machinist), that they could have trained a monkey to do. Well, maybe not...I'm not sure the monkey could read or use a 23-24" mic. Anyway, rebuilding one die took about 4 hours. That's all they wanted done in an 8 hour shift. Believe me, even F'ing off gets old after a while.

 

Thad

[DangBubba00]

That depends - do you like communism?

[Jim Whipple]

Where'd you go to work at Will?

The only union shop I can think of around here is in Tacoma.....

Jim

[Ron Roderick]

Good luck at your new job Will.

 

I have been working in a union shop since 1991. Got laid off 3 times. The union never tried to protect my job as a Programmer/Machinist. We are losing our jobs in January and we are not even qualified to be mechanics in this union. We are too dumb to put all the parts together that we have been programming and machining for all these years. They are very protective of their day jobs. Will remember what you are worth because, In a union your worth will be divided by the lowest common denominator.

 

Ron Roderick

[TheePres]

My current employer has hired some former union members from nationaly known defense company. There response to any chore is "I got to much on my plate allready", or "Well tackle that one next week".

In early 90's I took on job at union shop, on 2nd day, woo-hoo, i replaced centerdrill all on my own. Well, everyone freaked because that was lead-mans job not the operator.I lasted 2 days.

In my opinion, unions are better suited for those occupations who traditionally have been oppressed ; janitors, housecleaners, laborers etc. To collectivley improve on there minimun wages and non-existant benefits.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

The first shop I worked in was a Union Shop. Cummins Engine Co.'s DRC Division. To say that I was disappointed with how the union treated me would be an understatement. I've always been a good worker, solid work ethic, come in on Mondays and on Fridays, etc... Well from day 1 all I ever heard was "slow down, you're working too fast, they're just going to give you more work to do, they'll expect that from all of us", etc... ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Fortunately the great thing about working there was that management took care of me. They made sure I got choice assignments, they took even more heat from the union than I did I think. My supervisor reminded me often "You don't work for them, you work for me and I like what you're doing so keep it up. " Time and time again I had to take heat for doing work outside my classification. Cummins paid for a couple of years of College for me, they (the company's insurance provider) even paid for my drug rehabilatation as a teen - $120,000 worth. So I guess I felt grateful for what they had done for me and being a good worker was the best thing I could think of to repay them for their generosity. And I figured that the mis-treatment by ther union was just the old timers getting pissed off because there was somebody around that was smarter, faster, better and more reliable than them. Ultimately they closed our plant down and moved it to Mexico because the union would not do anything to help reel in soaring costs. Management wanted to give performance based raises, union said NO! Management wanted to put people in places within the organization that would benefit the employee AND the company, the union said NO. On and On, and On.....

 

The core Union mentality is Communist, and Communism IS a bad thing. It perverts work ethic, rewards slackers and laziness. Pays people based upon seniority instead of skill. The unions proclaim to be Pro-USA but Capitalism and unionism are diametrically opposed to eachother and cannot co-exist. One must be squashed, and I'm afraid that unionism is what must be squashed. The USA is Capitalism to the bone, it rewards the risk takers, the hard workers, etc... Shoot, where else in the world can somebody with $5 in their pocket, noyt a change of clothes or somewhere to go make himself/herself into a millionaire? Not many. Not many at all, perhaps we're the only place in the world where that can happen.

 

Would I work in a Union Shop today? If that was my only option to stay in a trade that has been so good to me, I'd honestly have to seriously think about it. I like to do everything. Program, Setup, Run ONE, Inspect, etc... that is generally frowned upon in a union environment, but then again to end this on a positive note, every shop is different, every Labor-Management relationship is different so you could be going to work in one of the good shops.

 

JM2C

 

[ 08-22-2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Michael Reynolds]

Some pretty storng opinions on this one!!

 

I work with various union companies, and find that everything depends on the companies relationship to the union.

 

That's all I'm sayin on this one.........

 

Mike R.

[STEELTHOM62]

My father was a machinist in a union shop for 44yrs before he retired.He's always said,"I started there when the union was necessary,and I was there to see it degrade into what it is today".He ran the newest machines as they got them starting with NC tape machines to 2 pallet Mori-Seiki's right before he retired.I'm obviously bias, but I believe the union helped hold back a very smart man from achieving all that he could.I worked there right out of apprenticeship and only lasted 1 1/2yrs.Don't out-produce or make waves cuz they'll make life pretty hard for you.I must add though that I was raised thanks to a union wage, and even though we were not rich by any standard, we never lacked anything we needed either.Good and bad, just like everything else.

 

[ 08-22-2002, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: STEELTHOM62 ]

[Greg McKay]

The Machinist Union saved my life.

 

How do you guys like Unions on labor day.

 

Ever work for a big place 20,000+ and the forman tells you to clean a tank with some unkown chemical in it.

 

You quit or say no and he's got 19,999 more disposable pawns.

 

While working in a Union Shop I was given free new shoes to replace shoes that I had been wearing that may have been contaminated by PCB's from presses.

 

If it wasn't a union shop and it was cost effective the company would have cut off my feet.

 

I am also lazy and stupid so it really works for me. Isn't anyone going to say anything about racial bias in unions?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Isn't anyone going to say anything about racial bias in unions?

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Prolly not. Webby slapped us like red-headed step-children the last time we got into race discussions.

[Jack Mitchell]

I personally believe that a company deserves the union that it gets. If treated properly, employees would not resort to establishing the union in the first place.

 

Don't be fooled into believing that they are there to serve you. Unions are major coporations; big business with lots of cash & political clout.

 

At one time, once you passed the mandatoty probationary period - the cheif steward & union president would actually introduce themselves to its newest union member. This just doesn't seen to happen anymore.

 

Regards, Jack

[Glenn Bouman]

Let's all sit back and have a collective drink and listen to the plight of the brother and sisterhood.

 

Solidarity Forever

 

All the while they are being laid off due to our lowering productivity as more work gets sent to east Asia.

[mold100]

I remember once my dad dropped a part of at a large Union shop GE to be exact

who once here in erie employed 7000 people now under 2800.Anyways the part weighed about 110 LBS. ,so the shipping guy had to get a forklift driver,The forklift ran out of propane

at the back of the truck,so the forklift guy had to get maitenence,to bring a screwdriver,and a material handler to bring a propane tank,and safety guy to lock it out,all together after an hour and a half of watching 6 guys at about 26-28 $per hour mess around with thier NORMAL operations my dad pulled the part off and left it there.They werent happy but in the real world shop dollars wait on dimes,and an hour and a half is alot of dollars.Just my .02