O/T Mcam employment tests??

[chad fisher]

We are about to hire a person to set-up/run/operate a 60x30 vmc. We do R/D work so the person needs to be self sufficient and one of the requirements is to have cam experience for they will be required to do there own programming. Now to weed out bull xxxxters i have a written test that i give people now, since we are requiring cam experience this time and some apps. have had mcam experience on them i would like to give a test for that too! Any idea's and thoughts to how tuff or simplified this should be i would like to hear some opinions. Also what should i do for people who have non Mcam experience? The money is 17.00 to 25.00 an/hr which is really good for around here plus the benifits. If anyone might be interested in the local area of columbus ohio the website is www.battelle.org click on job oppertunitys.

Thanks, Chad

[Toolfab]

If familiarity is what you are looking for, what about letting them sit in front of a pc and give them simple things to do. I.E. chain an entity, transform from center line, offest a line to create a series of them. SIMPLE tasks like that should be childs play to anyone with actual experiance. If they fly through that give them something harder. That would give you the knowledge of there grasp of the interface.

 

HTH

[ROB]

$17.00 to $25.00

I wich they had those kind of adds here

in my area.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I would give a simple Box, with a pocket with an island and a hole or two on all side. GIve it to them and say "Program This, use any tools you feel necessary. This will weed out the guys that can just draw well. If they program it using different T/C Planes and create no to minimal extra geometry give them the full $25. If they copy it 6 times and rotate it so they can get to all sides, give them the $17. It all goes to how they know Mastercam.

 

JM2C

[Claus@Cimco]

And if the guy tells you that you can machine 5 sides of the cube, at the time. Give him a few $ extra.

 

Claus@cimco

[Matthew]

I agree with James suggestion. Give me them a simple part and see how proficient they are at that. If it takes them a long time for a simple job, then they might have only taken a course within the last 6 months and do not have day-day experience. They could start at the lower salary range because they might have potential to get better and quicker if they are given the full-time opportunity.

[chad fisher]

Thanks James, i liked your idea. I have got to scrounge up some ideas by next week.

What i really enjoy is busting peoples balls when they can say they can walk the walk but end up with no xxxx to prove it. Thanks guys!

[mark l]

I would say give them a project you are working on becouse I don't know what kind of work you do but if you do like we do and use it just to sink molds (3 axis) then you would want someone that can do that but if you use M.C. to machine say point to point production jobs (4 or 5 axis), then you would want someone who can do that.

 

I guess what I'm saying is from what I have seen from the questions on this forum is mastercam has a lot of features that not everybody uses, I've seen questions from guys that knows everything there is to know about post processors but they ask "what do you meen by surface milling", then you got guys like myself that can "program" a comples 3D mold created by someone else in U.G. but I strugle with creating a surface myself.

 

Just a thought

[Trevor Bailey]

I am not a big fan of written tests. Give them a simple part to program and then have them cut the part in foam or something soft on the machine. You will see everything you need and it will take just as long to do as the written test.

[steve f]

Chad,

 

Why not get them to create the part and program. Obviously, they'll try to make it look as complex as possible to impress a potential employer which will give an idea of their ability to create geometery and toolpaths as well as their creativity in approaching a problem or situation. Hope you find a good one,

 

Steve

[Scott Bond]

Find a craftsman that fits your shop policy.

I would have some of your basic machining philosophy questions prepared for him.Knowing every trick that's not in the MC book, is not really the majority of the programmers job,having a guy that knows what parts will warp may be more profitable to your shop that someone who knows where the "end key" for the spinning the part show.If the guy was only going to program give him the he may not be as valuable, as the guy who can successfully program and run the part with-out you having to take a big aspirin on every time you give him a project.

Sometimes knowing what not to do in a machine shop is more valuable.

[Jack Mitchell]

Chad,

 

You just already know that I’m going to take a different approach than the other members and their excellent responses.

 

Often, a prospect will be intimidated by some form of testing – it’s in our nature to fear such unknown tests or questions; as such, a very talented prospect can easily choose his response or result. – Maybe the guy is shy or easily intimidated, for who could possibly know?

 

Alternately, let’s say that some guy aces your test and yet proves himself totally useless on the floor, or worse, you really feel threatened by such expertise.

 

It all comes down to your gut instinct when it comes to making such judgments; I too have often thought of this very means and quite honestly, I wouldn’t mind, in the least, if other professors could pass a basic programming test – Mastercam or otherwise.

 

Try the gut instinct test, it works; try to look at the potential in a prospect rather than the immediate walk on water expectations – this is by no means any bash towards you or anybody else on the forum.

 

This really does work – set a man up to fail and watch his attack or reaction to failure. This is a true test of character; compassion and understanding will build strong bones, therefore, I ask only that all candidates be considered in the same favor.

 

I don’t believe you to be threatened by the need to hire an additional set-up person, nor do I believe you need to set some new guy up for the ball busting experience. We are in this together as a team.

 

Again, no bash, just some hash to consider.

 

Regards, Jack

[P_Scott]

Chad,

 

I agree with James about the "sample" part, or a part that you have done in the past, not a current project. Modify the part to put in some errors in the file and include a good print of the same part. This will allow you to see how well they comprehend the print to the part and if any changes need to be made. Then when programming, make the changes necessary to the CAM file and finally setting up the tools to run in the machine. Those are your requirements. Going from print to part. Anyone who has ever worked in the shop for a length of time and knows CAM will perform the task without hesitation. Those who are "BS"-ing in the interview will be easily separated from those who can "Show Up and Cut It". If it was me, I would relish the opportunity to show what I can do rather than answering a written test or stammering through an interview. Good Luck

[ssibiski]

I like to use a 3 step process.

Step 1. Hand him/her a part with calipers and micrometer and a sheet of paper to record the measurements. Then give them a print and let them go at it.

( this provides you a chance to see attention to detail, speed, and precision.)

Step 2. Give him/her a math test. Simple math all the way to some complex trig. Also give a calculator to use with the test.

( this is gives you a chance to see how he/she can do under a little pressure of a test. I can complete the test in 15min, I give them 10min. I know they won't finish.)

Step 3. Give him/her a chance to apply toolpaths to some geometry. Also give a time frame for the part run time to be in. I allow them a much as they need for this.

( this will let you see their ablity as a programmer. I give them as much time as they need because sometimes they are not familar with MC or the version we run here. Example someone who has run MC ver7 at their last job will not be up to date on all the new features and time savers that are now available in MC ver 9.)

 

JMTC

 

Steve Sibiski

[chad fisher]

I appreciate all the opinions i have recieved on this subject. It's funny because two yrs

back we would almost take anyone to get them hired in, now that the markets have fallen we have been seeing a rise in un employed skilled trades. I do take in to consideration alot of what Jack said. I am stepping down from running the mills and concentrating on edm wire and sinker, it got to be to much to do running all three when

the mill is 70 yards down on other side of shop. I just want to see a smooth transition,

for the other people we have here they do not want to run my mill because of the work that gets placed on it. So i wouldnt mind seeing someone who is equivelent or even better than i am to take over. I just want to make sure the person is qaulified, i dont mind a little ignorance but stupidity i hate. Thanks again folks, Chad

[TheePres]

All great advice from other members....I in the past have been asked by employer to interview and evaluate prospective programmers and machinist. What I look for in a good programmer is the capability to plan a job, so i hand them blueprint and before approaching MasterCam have them jot down a manufacturing outline and cost/time estimate. I feel this is important quality in the cut throat job-shop enviroment. I immediately weed out the apathetic former union or large shop workers that are not self-sufficient and or have no experience at decision making. Satisfied with there initiative, I then have them demo there basic 2-d and 3-d capabilities.

[rsbeadle]

All these responses lack one key topic, the field of manufacturing needed. I find it more important that anyone looking for a mill programmer/operator/supervisor should consider the experience in what the part/project is being used for one of the most important factors in hiring someone to do a job. I have been building extrusion tooling for about 12 years and I have used every machine that can be found in an extrusion tooling shop. Eight of the 12 years I spent running a CNC Lathe. I have ran manual and CNC lathes, mills, drills, grinders, wire machines, band saws, and hones. I was hired at my current job as CNC Mill Supervisor about two years ago with no everyday CNC Programming experience using Mastercam. But with my knowledge of the parts we build, the way they are used, and what the part is expected to do, I have trained myself to be a very proficient (?sp) MC programmer, cutting costs and part times drasticly since I was hired in. Finding a guy with a good head on his shoulders and a good work ethic can be more important than being a mastercam expert.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

Finding a guy with a good head on his shoulders and a good work ethic can be more important than being a mastercam expert.

---

Steve, very good point. Very good point.

[ak762]

Chad BTW did you find anybody with your tests.

I tell my history with company when I was tested.

I took part in competition for vacancy 2 time here

One company was division from Germany and other from USA

They tried to find best person too I loose both time.

But companies soon loose business now they are bankrupt

When I looked for job third time at one company said me come and work

They trust me without any test and company go up constantly.

I wish to say only be care with testing business it is not sport competition.