O/T One tin soldier - rides away!

[Jack Mitchell]

I fully respect the opinions of the members and would therefore ask that we as a forum try to be sensitive to the many differing opinions of nationality, personal beliefs, and culture - in this debate.

 

It is now apparent that the United Nations has failed to produce evidence of chemical, nuclear, and mass destruction; the search has been exhaustive and spoon fed with intelligence on a daily basis for more than two months.

I believe that intelligence agents have gone through the wringer with trying to plant such evidence so the UN could find it and thereby justify what I believe will happen anyway.

 

The army presence in the Middle East must surely be 400K by now – I don’t believe President Bush can just tell the boys to pack it in and return home or that we made a mistake in judgment. – He and the armed forces would lose face or perhaps his ability to lead would immediately be challenged. This war is going to happen whether you believe in the propaganda, intelligence reports, or the belief that I do not agree with the fact that there is something there.

 

"If we had a relationship with al-Qaida, and we believed in that relationship, we wouldn't be ashamed to admit it," the Iraqi leader said, (like him or hate him - this man can certainly talk it up)!

 

Arguably, the world is torn on this challenge for there is no justification to attack and destroy a country because someone thinks you’re up to something. Afghanistan got destroyed for what? What was possibly gained from this? Really when you think about it the only gain is the alleged break up of a violent, anti-government, terrorist organization and the unlawful combatant designation given to those held in Guantanmo bay.

 

I believe that all people and all cultures have a purpose for goodness in this world.

 

The late fifties & early sixties saw how many bomb shelters built in our own backyards? it’s almost comical now but this was very, very, serious stuff back then.

Do you also recall the hatred towards the Russians until say the last ten or fifteen years?

They are just like the rest of us – they are good natured people.

 

I do not agree with terrorism, suicide bombers, or any other means of destroying lives or gaining the spoils of an act of violence or war; people that would do this have a sense of passion for their value system – I recall the female suicide bomber that was engaged to marry (It just seems that when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose), unfortunately, they usually go down as martyrs.

 

Answer me this question, who was Time magazines man of the year in 1939?

 

Please avoid the temptation of going ballistic on this sensitive issue and try to respect the differing opinions of the many cultures represented in our forum – let’s just try to be kind and enjoy a healthy debate.

 

Regards, Jack

[iowajim62]

Mussolini?(sp)?

[Toolfab]

quote:

---

all cultures have a purpose for goodness in this world

---

That is fine and good, but what about the people of Kawait, what about the people in the embassy's, what bout the people on those plains, or in the WTC. Iraq has shown NO evidence that they are disarming, who are we to believe? Our country that we live, work, and some of us would die for~or a leader with a track record of censoring his people, brutality, and murder.

 

The problem with the media is that they stopped showing the WTC falling down, the families crying, the collapse of our sense of security. Why wait for something to happen again?

 

We as a GREAT nation need to stand up for ourselves. We have become a laughing stock over the past 15 years, militarily. We should have finished the job during the Gulf War, but we didn't. Now it is time to do something about it and reastablish ourselves as the one and only world leader.

 

God bless all of our men and women here and overseas fighting for "our" way of life. This is a great country, and I want to keep it that way.

[Toolfab]

dont forget about this

[Tony]

Just about everyone I know around me

Say's "Get them before they get us"

I usually say yeah with YOUR son, not mine.

I Do stand behind my country.

Its funny, At are lunch table here at work

I bring in Newsweek, National geographic and

Readers digest.

Me and one other guy will read up on the World.

The other ten Guys will wait in line for

The sports section to see how the Hawks are doing and so forth.These are the people when asked

Say "Get them before they get us".

 

Someone once said

"The price of freedom is blood"

 

[ 02-05-2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Tony ]

[McRae]

I have not seen a proven link between the two events and this is what the rest of the planet is waiting to see. Secondly - the Gulf War "Job" was complete as the mandate was to expell the Iraqi's from Kuait.

 

[ 02-05-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Andrew McRae ]

[jdempsey]

If we had of made an example out of them during the gulf war instead of just hitting them and leaving, we wouldnt have to worry about any more trouble for 50 or 60 years. But now everyone thinks that we just hand out a couple of slaps on the wrist and say dont do that any more. We should have a nice 30,000 hole golf resort as a result of the gulf war but we dont. Thats just my .02 but I think that we should make examples.

[Dan Bedore]

personally I don't think we have a problem with the john doe on the streets its the leaders and those who are close to them. so the them that we go after to get should be the leaders, not the ordinary people like us.

[ssibiski]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Would our fore fathers who bought this nation with their blood want or agree with this?

I'm not so sure they would.

 

 

JMTC

 

Steve Sibiski

[Part Factory]

I am confused.

 

My opinion has toggled in favor and against this matter on a daily bases by the quality and content of the speech presented that moment. I have the conveniance of monitoring the movements from our media sources during the day since I operate my business from home.

 

One phrase commonly heard "No smoking gun found by inspectors" means that the UN resolution 1441 has been satisfied by inspection activity and therefore the United Stated is just a war monger. I understand that resolution 1441 requires Iraq to submit proof that they have destroyed all weapons of mass destruction. The burden of proof is Iraq's responsibility not the inspectors. Since Iraq did not disclose the proof of weapon destruction the inspectors have little to confirm.

 

Our nation has a history of waiting for evil acts to unfold before taking action that could have prevented the act. Example: I believe that we had significant proof that the WTC event was in proccess before the first plane hit. FBI knowledge of the event is well documented. Yet we are powerless by our own standards to shoot down an airplane before it struck a WTC building. In fact the only action taken to thwart a final hit by terrorist was accomplished by defenseless innocent passengers on the last remaining airplane that crashed in Pennsylvania.

 

I am not interested in going to war. But waiting for the ambishions of Iraq's leaders to be distributed by biological, chemical, and/or nuclear weapons is a horrifying vision.

 

I am satisfied knowing the United States is at the UN making a diplomatic case regarding Iraq's alledged deception. It will be good practice for our diplomats and leaders considering the North Korean affair on the horizon.

 

I am happy to live in a country that upholds freedoms that allow a forum discussion of our countries policies without the fear of death or imprisonment.

 

I am still confused am may never fully undestand.

[L Hanft]

As a Vietnam vet my view on this is twisted. My vision is clouded by the lies during the 60-70-80-90's. The situation in the mid-east seems to change every few years... for a while the Shaw of Iran is out best bud, even though he was cruel to his own folks, even Sadam stood in our light of acceptance.... when he "served" our purpose. To the residents of the mid-east..."I understand your confusion." The United States does not seem to have a "steady" policy toward other nations (third world) It does appear when viewed from outside the US that our policies seems to change depending on who can give the biggest bribe or benifit.... not on the policies and principals that we claim to have founded our nation....... We talk out of both sides of our mouth, at times I am embarrased to be an American. Sadam, perhaps must go. A single 50 cal from half a mile would have been less fuss.

[resjun]

Quote toolfab

Now it is time to do something about it and reastablish ourselves as the one and only world leader.

 

sounds like there is two dictator's in this world

all great nations fall romans incas eygpt greece

u.s.s.r british empire,

all for conquest. once all is defeated there is nothing worth living for.

[TheePres]

quote:

---

Who are we to believe? Our country that we live, work, and some of us would die for~or a leader with a track record of censoring his people, brutality, and murder.

---

Can it be this simple?? 184 or so countries on earth that could be affected by Saddams chemical agents....etc. Only US and England and a handfull of others seem to be preoccupied on matter. Is the rest of the world MAD in not supporting us ??

Or could we be???

[Scott Bond]

I have two brothers, and two sisters.

Between them they have four sons.

They are all on the boats right now.

I will support them.

 

IMHO

Everyone can do as they please...

But as for me;;;;;; since the day of 911

I am an American,don't tread on me.

 

[ 02-05-2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[resjun]

same here my cousin from fall river mass is going he is a sea bees in the navy may god watch over them all

[Trevor Bailey]

I am an American,don't tread on me.

 

That is a great statement and one that I take dear to heart. Not to go on a massive rant here, but even if you are not an American and you live in the area in question, would in not benefit us all in the world to know that getting rid of a person like Sad-xxxx that has proven he can not be trusted and has really horrible weapons that he has no problem in using on his own people would be better of dead. The guy is a menance. We would all be better off knowing that at least one less nut-jpb is gone for good and we could sleep a little better at night.

[iowajim62]

Hi Jack,

I was wrong, it was Stalin. Went home and did some snoopin'. Anyways here we go, you don't think Sadly He'sinsane is a threat in the region because of some "smoking gun" not being found. I'll be the first to say that Aushwitz was "smoking" before we did finally get in the war. And that is what we've learned about tyrants,dictators and madmen in our short American History. So do you propose we wait until he launches some Scuds on Israel before we do anything ? I believe we should've "smoked 'em" back in '91 when those boys were sitting in the desert backyard of that scumbag and Bush's Dad said no by Sat phone. But that's another story altogether. Right now is no different than times before Dec. 7,1941 and everyone knows what horror that war caused all over the planet. We tried neutrality (sp?) and it didn't work, we got bombed. I say get him out one way or another before he does something we all regret.

[David S]

When I came out college 20 years ago, my dad told me:" Do not talk about politics and do not talk about religion if you want to make friends in your office."

 

Personally, I don't mind people talk about sports, movie stars, their mother-in-laws, and their sausages... in this forum; it is not proper to talk about politics and religions. I am pretty sure there are some places on web you can talk those things. It is MasterCam forum after all.

 

Jack, you might be right; you might be wrong; and I do not care. I am an American citizen. I love my country for good and for bad, for right and for wrong . I would die for her. I am a design engineer not a politician. I vote for my leaders and I listen to my leaders. I will never betray my country.

 

BTW, our leaders know more and can write better than you --- this was why we voted for them.

 

[ 02-05-2003, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: David S ]

[Jack Mitchell]

Friends,

 

I am tempted to respond tonight but will hold my tongue for the moment.

 

Thank you kindly for keeping this discussion on the high road, the world awaits the next 36 hours; the forum awaits the classic Jack that we all know is also out there.

 

I won't be back until 11:45PM eastern time on Feb. 6th, please tow the line and try to avoid the padlock situation.

 

Regards, Jack

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Here's my take;

 

We should've smoked 'em when we had the chance back in the early 90's. I was 21, ripe for the draft and I was afraid at first. Then my Grandfather a WWII vet told me a story about his Great, Great, ...... Grandfather, that fought in the Revolutionary War and how being cut off from England was a frightening scenario for a lot of folks, but their freedom, the freedon of coming generations was more precious than his life so he fought for freedom. So from then on, I've said, if I'm called, I'll go. Wherever, whenever, and for whatever reason our leaders see fit. If freedom is on the line and obviously it is for a large portion of the world "living" under the thumbs of DICKtators like xxxx Insane, then I'm willing to sacrifice myself, and I would encourage my kids to fight if called on as well.

 

9/11 was enough to provoke me to desire to see the destruction of creeps like xxxx, those that harbor and "saint" maniacs like the cowardly 9/11 hijackers. Yeah, they may have wreaked havoc on our economy but soon they will be uttering Gen. Yammomoto's (sp?) words after he raided Pearl Harbor "...I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping dragon...". I think we should light off a nuke a hundred miles or so (definitely within eyesight) of Baghdad! Send a message..... They seem to like to send messages, let's send one of our own, from half a world away no less. Let those rat xxxx know they've messed with the best and that they should be prepared to die like the rest. xxxx needs to be made an example of, turn half of their little sandbox of a country into glass. They(terrorists) are like roaches and they must be exterminated.

 

I believe the reason that the US has not disclosed all that they know to the inspectors and the UN is because it would be a breach of security. We were right about the Russians having missiles in Cuba, and we're right about this. He is harboring WMD, he has no business having them. He has been in material breach of the UN agreement since day 1 and those idiots in the UN don't want to see it. You know what, I think the pre-requsite for being a hig-up at the UN is you've got to be an Anti-Westerner, Communist Sympathizer, 3rd world idiot.

 

JM2C

[Fig sign]

I am not talking about if US has a right to strike, I personally think it has , but ...

If US will not strike it will loose it face all over the world.

It will never be a superpower once more no matter how much weapon and might it has.

It will fall apart like Roman Empire ,or mongols after the great Chingiz-Khan .

Cause you know the worst thing in life is to be weak , and this will be treated in Arab world specificully as an act of weakness.

The same is with North Korea.

Just look at Reagan or Churchill .

They were great leaders .

The words and deeds must go together.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Oh, and one more thing, how many SCUD missiles does xxxx have to hurl at our friends in Israel before enough is enough? I say the first one in the air is the LAST thing they send up in the air besides flatulence.

[Fig sign]

James !

If he will drop one Scud on Israel this time we will retaliate .

Because we have the same problem with self- respect as you !

[KJS]

We won't find a smoking gun untill it is being fired at us. Five years without weapons inspectors is alot of time to hide weapons in a BIG desert. The fact that Saddam posseses these weapons is not the point after all who doesn't posses them? The problem is Saddam is willing to use them. Ask the families of the 6000 Kurds that were killed with chemical weapons how big a threat Hussein is. It's time to deal with the problem.

[Elad]

War again??

This time it will not stop me!

When they will call me for duty, i will take a laptop with a cellular connection!

 

there is no saddam in the world that will keep me out of this forum!