Old bugs back again. Thanks alot CNC!

[Jroc85]

What words did I put in anyone's mouth? I made a direct quote and had something to say about it. Sure I was laughing... I was going back to dinner last night, we had something my 8 year old had never tried... he stated he did not like such and such. I asked him when he had tried it, and he said never, but I just know I don't like it. His statement (and the statement of many others) made me think of that conversation.

I know I don't like the taste of cow manure before I even try it.

[K2csq7]

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

So because some VOCAL users are experiencing issues, you're just going to jump on the band wagon and say X6 is $#!+???

 

 

 

Dude, I am a beta tester. What makes you think I haven't used several revisions of X6 already?

 

Unfortunately every time I give it a try it takes days to get all the kinks worked out. I have work to do here and when they continually release crap to the general public that isn't even meeting my specifications of what a BETA version should be ummm yeah, I'm frustrated.

 

 

The inmates are running the asylum over at CNC Software and I'm tired of it. I wasn't going to get all that nasty but I am not some mindless sheep and I resent the implication.

[Thee Rickster ™]

Alright I 'll try to may a funny statement that belittles me and who ever

reads between the lines improperly .

 

If I take my head out of My a$$....will you?

[neurosis]

James,

 

Ive been curious about this but have never asked. How many hours do you log on Mastercam on any given week? Programming is not your main job so it has just made me wonder.

 

I also cant help but wonder what you are doing so differently that it does not expose most of these issues. Or have you just learned to work around or live with them? Most of the issues that I experience are things that are daily routine type of things. Things like I posted in a previous thread regarding moving a part to a different machine.

 

I am not sure how it could be possible that you have never experienced this problem unless you have NEVER had to do this. This bug has been around since I started using the software and it presents itself EVERY time that I either re-number tools (and i dont mean using the right click in the operations manager method of renumbering) or changing jobs from one machine to another when the memory type is different and tool diameter and length offsets have to be modified. I cant remember a single time that it has worked as you would expect it to.

 

If you know a secret to get this working properly, PLEASE, I am BEGGING you to tell me how do to it. I would even be willing to PAY you for your expertise.

 

And lets just start with that one. If it works out, I could probably create a permanent side job for you teaching work arounds. Have you thought about doing this on your off time? I think that you could make a fortune since you have obviously found a way to use this software that masks all of these issues.

[Jroc85]

Alright I 'll try to may a funny statement that belittles me and who ever

reads between the lines improperly .

 

If I take my head out of My a$$....will you?

I'll give it a try.

[Dtm]

Does peon have the record yet. This thread is great, I sure hope they don't lock it.

[Thee Rickster ™]

I'll give it a try.

 

Dang, I cant, mine is stuck in the 'IN' position....lol

[neurosis]

Does peon have the record yet. This thread is great, I sure hope they don't lock it.

 

Not yet but it is getting close. Although I am starting to wonder if there are actually 4,000 views from people that are actually interested in these issues and the other 20,000 are J.B. bouncing in and out of this thread all day long cutting and pasting portions of posts to be taken out of context and adding his own lies to further his agenda in to his blog.

 

I would imagine that if we continue to talk about other cad systems or if the Mastercam bashing gets out of control, this thread is almost guaranteed to be locked. If we can try and keep it civil even though some of us are far past frustrated then maybe it will stick around for a while.

[DanielGingras]

I would imagine that if we continue to talk about other cad systems or if the Mastercam bashing gets out of control, this thread is almost guaranteed to be locked. If we can try and keep it civil even though some of us are far past frustrated then maybe it will stick around for a while.

 

 

I think individual comments will be addressed directly before the thread gets locked or deleted. I'm sure if all the legitimate "I'm not happy about X" or "Y doesn't work as it should" or "it should have function Z" disappear and the thread turns into nothing but childish name-calling, personal attacks on other forum members, libel, etc. then it'll get locked. But I doubt the thread will be closed while there is still legitimate and somewhat productive conversation going on, even if it is occasionally spiced up with some less-than-noble language

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

James,

 

Ive been curious about this but have never asked. How many hours do you log on Mastercam on any given week? Programming is not your main job so it has just made me wonder.

It really depends. Sometime I spend 50-60 hours a week, and some weeks only 10. On average, I'd say probably in the 20 hour a week range if I averaged the whole year out. Lately though, it's been closer to 50-60 with all the time-studies I've been doing.

 

I also cant help but wonder what you are doing so differently that it does not expose most of these issues. Or have you just learned to work around or live with them? Most of the issues that I experience are things that are daily routine type of things. Things like I posted in a previous thread regarding moving a part to a different machine.

I've been using the software since V3. So there is, let's say, a significant amount of seat time there and leave it at that. And believe me, there is NO substitute for seat time. It's why I advocate programmers that are serious about their craft, spend time on their own playing with the software, at home, away from the work distractions. There's no ither way I can say it other that that. Or, take some classes atht elocal community college if they offer Mastercam. Start with the basics. There's no shame in that. WHen I taught Basic Mastercam, I always had guys that could have done ok in the Advanced classes, but I persuaded them to take the beginning class. Afterwards they thanked me because they were missing a few little things here and there that helped them every day. Then I woudl have Johnny know it all show up demanding to take the advanced class and didn't know the first thing about 3D modeling, planes, etc...

 

I am not sure how it could be possible that you have never experienced this problem unless you have NEVER had to do this. This bug has been around since I started using the software and it presents itself EVERY time that I either re-number tools (and i dont mean using the right click in the operations manager method of renumbering) or changing jobs from one machine to another when the memory type is different and tool diameter and length offsets have to be modified. I cant remember a single time that it has worked as you would expect it to.

I renumber tools all the time by directly editing the tool in an operation not from the Tool Manager. I do this because when I'm doing time-studies I like to make it so that if I ever have to come back and turn-key the part, it's easier to pick up where I left off. I can just pull up the print, my time study, then open the file and get started. Often I'will change Machine Defs from the original one as well because the customer wants to consider a different machine. I've been doing a lot of things the same way for years and apparently it has served me well. Maybe I learned a work around long, long, long ago and have used that work around so it no longer seems lie a work around, I don;t know, all I know, is that I do things pretty much the same way every time. When I do find bugs, they are very easy to replicate because ido things the same way every time. If you do it the same way every time, things become automatic.

 

If you know a secret to get this working properly, PLEASE, I am BEGGING you to tell me how do to it. I would even be willing to PAY you for your expertise.

Sorry, I'm not for hire. If you were one of my customers, when I do your machine training, I can work some programming training in along with it when requested.

 

I think that you could make a fortune since you have obviously found a way to use this software that masks doesn't expose all of these issues.

fissed and...

 

Maybe, but I like to try to spend as much time with my family as I can and that's worth more than anything anyone could offer me. I've turned down several opportunities to make SERIOUS money because they wanted to essentialy own me. Sorry, I don't work that way.

 

 

Matt, my apologies for laughing and putting words in your mouth.

[Tony35]

this is a good thread to see what other problems might pop up

 

another thing that is driving me nuts is the blue screen when you change the level of a part

then sit there for a min. while it does it

should take 3 sec

[gcode]

I'm not having all the machine def trouble some people are having and I can think of 2 things

I'm doing different than most people

 

1. I update my machine def's and posts manually. We've got over 20 of them here and its a PIA, but I do them one at a time, by hand

 

2. My CNC Machine folder with posts, Control defs, tool libraries etc .. are NOT in the Windows user folders..

At work they are on a network drive so all the programmers can use the same ones and

at home they are in C:\X6_Post.

 

 

 

There are a million variables involved in Windows user folders.. group permissions, personal permissions

admin permissions etc etc etc.. I keep my stuff as far away from that as I can get

 

 

I have no idea if this is why I'm not seeing the problems others are having, just throwwing it out there

[Tony35]

we have our posts,MMD,CD on the network here

seems to be working good

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

There are a million variables involved in Windows user folders.. group permissions, personal permissions

admin permissions etc etc etc.. I keep my stuff as far away from that as I can get

 

You may have hit on a big one there G. I wonder if we all moved everything out of the user files, if most of our problems would go away.

[neurosis]

It really depends. Sometime I spend 50-60 hours a week, and some weeks only 10. On average, I'd say probably in the 20 hour a week range if I averaged the whole year out. Lately though, it's been closer to 50-60 with all the time-studies I've been doing.

 

 

I only asked because I wondered if your amount of usage and the circumstances that you are using the software may lead to less frustration for you.

 

Some people learn software at different rates so someone telling me that they have 15 years of experience using X system means very little to me. Its like hiring machinists. Some people say that they have 15 years of experience yet they have 1 year that took 15 to get. Dont think that what I am saying pertains to you in any way. The point that I am trying to make here, is that someone that is good at learning these systems can be just as good after a few years as someone that has been using it for 15. Even better in some cases.

 

Since Mastercam has changed so much since X, and I realize that there are still legacy paths in the system, I dont see having used the system since V<whatever> prior to X as having much of an advantage over those that started after the release of X. That is just a thought, but the two systems are vastly different. I have worked with people that have been using the system since V3? (early 90's) and I have to be honest with you, they didnt appear to know the system any better than people that I have worked with that started on X2 or X3 even. In fact, they knew less about the system because they were stuck in the "cant teach an old dog new tricks" category. They still did things the old fashion way and didnt take advantage of the new tools that were available to them. They didnt know how to use them or that some of them even existed (and therefore didnt experience any of the issues that came along with some of these tools). A good example of that was one of the people that we had come in here to train one of our past programmers.

 

I use this system a minimum of 40 hours per week. MINIMUM. And that is EVERY week. More realistically, I use this system anywhere between 10 - 15 hours per day, anywhere from 4 - 6 days a week. Now I started playing with Mastercam in V9 (although I hated it) but switched from Cimatron completely some time in X. I think that was back in 05/06? I cant begin to tell you how many hours I have logged in this system. Both my own, and the shops. I am a full time programmer!

 

I have paid Colin to come in sit with me at my house for a day out of pocket and on my day off. I have also been to several of the beginning classes for both v9 and X back in the late V9 and early X days. Again, out of my own pocket, and on my own time. Ive spent a day with our reseller on my day off going over issues that I had found in the software so that they could determine whether I was using the software incorrectly or whether it was indeed bugs in the software. Guess what, they determined that everything that I brought to their attention were bugs and none of them were they aware of before I brought them to their attention. I learned to modify our own posts on my own time as well. My point is, I feel that I have earned the right to voice my frustrations. And not just for my company, but for myself. I dont just come in here after fumbling around with the software and then complain that I found a bug because I cant figure out how something works. This software is not complicated to learn. In fact, it is not even a pin head worth of difficult to learn compared to what Cimatron IT was.

 

I was just being sarcastic when I asked you for workarounds. Not that I doubt your expertise in the system in any way. In fact, I have learned quite a bit from you on this forum from your older posts through the search.

[Tyler Robertson]

I am so sick of this. I'm not even going to bother with X6MU1. X4 is still working fine... What a shameful waste of money paying for maintenance has been the last 2 years.

 

I would at least install and give it a go

In some cases it's the type of work that someone does all the time that causes them to experience certain issues. If you saw Rick's parts, they can be vastly different from other peoples. IE: moldwork vs. say.. trimming, so an issue that causes him endless frustration may never show up on another system.

 

What was it, X4 when the post error checking was changed and all of a sudden people started getting a massive amount of post-error warnings?

People were furious and posting on the forum about it, when actually it was exposing lingering errors in their posts that were there all along.. so if you read that without trying something, you would've thought major issues.

Not downgrading the issues, just saying I wouldn't not use a version of software. I'm saying that as a software user of other stuff other than Mastercam

 

I can't imagine staying on X3 instead of X4 and not having things like dynamic xform because of a config bug

[BrandonH]

I would at least install and give it a go

In some cases it's the type of work that someone does all the time that causes them to experience certain issues. If you saw Rick's parts, they can be vastly different from other peoples. IE: moldwork vs. say.. trimming, so an issue that causes him endless frustration may never show up on another system.

 

That was kinda my plan. No complex 3d stuff here, Only simple 2d die details. Just waiting for x6 version of prodrill. Then I'm on board. Probably gonna keep x5 loaded for a while though.

[Tony35]

That was kinda my plan. No complex 3d stuff here, Only simple 2d die details. Just waiting for x6 version of prodrill. Then I'm on board. Probably gonna keep x5 loaded for a while though.

 

X6 seems ok for 2D

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

I would at least install and give it a go

In some cases it's the type of work that someone does all the time that causes them to experience certain issues. If you saw Rick's parts, they can be vastly different from other peoples. IE: moldwork vs. say.. trimming, so an issue that causes him endless frustration may never show up on another system.

 

What was it, X4 when the post error checking was changed and all of a sudden people started getting a massive amount of post-error warnings?

People were furious and posting on the forum about it, when actually it was exposing lingering errors in their posts that were there all along.. so if you read that without trying something, you would've thought major issues.

Not downgrading the issues, just saying I wouldn't not use a version of software. I'm saying that as a software user of other stuff other than Mastercam

 

I can't imagine staying on X3 instead of X4 and not having things like dynamic xform because of a config bug

 

 

In addition to some beta versions I did try the production release of X6. X6 wire was completely unusable on the first job I tested. It was a simple 4 axis cut and for some reason X6 was not able to produce a usable toolpath. Crazy stuff like cutting on the wrong side of the chain, etc... The same job works fine in X4 Wire... The bug has been logged but it's too late. I'm already pissed. Maybe by X7 I'll be over it or better yet maybe we'll be using something else by then.

[Guest]

Question Matt.

 

 

When I was in a shop and using the Beta, if I ran into something that I couldn't get to work, I would get around by going back and then back into the beta version to continue testing.

 

I'm just wondering if you and maybe others could chime in too, that they leave the release all together if they hit a brick wall?

[mayday]

Crazy stuff like cutting on the wrong side of the chain,

thats what was happening to me with X6 lathe. I would chain a path, copy the op and the chain would flip sides.

thats when I said ef'it. back to X5

not time here to log stupid bugs that wasnt there 1 version ago

[Guest]

not time here to log stupid bugs that wasnt there 1 version ago

 

But Wes, isn't that exactly the point of being a Beta tester?

 

 

Am I wrong?

 

I know I always run it "expecting" to find things, even when I was programming in a shop.

 

Happy when I didn't, sometimes aggravated when I did

[mayday]

I did early on John. Found some major bugs and they fixed them. Right now we are waist deep busy. I cant afford down time testing software. I test when time allows. I'd be in HOT water if the bosses found out there machines arnt running cause I cant get things to work as they should in a new release when they work in X5

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

But Wes, isn't that exactly the point of being a Beta tester?

 

 

Am I wrong?

 

I know I always run it "expecting" to find things, even when I was programming in a shop.

 

Happy when I didn't, sometimes aggravated when I did

 

I think I'm in the same position as Wes. Just don't have time for it anymore. When I first started beta testing several years ago I thought I was going to change the world and get a bunch of lingering problems addressed but my enthusiasm is gone and many of those lingering issues are still here. I think that the beta crew should get a nearly bulletproof product and occasionally have to report something. Unfortunately it seems like they can't fix or improve anything in the software without breaking 10 other things so Beta Testers and the QC department are overwhelmed.