kitamura or okuma?

[Guest SAIPEM]

Great question. On FANUC machines, with no look ahead feature turned on, block processing is at 8ms and no block look ahead. With AI-NANO I on, you drop to about 4ms and look ahead startts at 80 blocks. You can get up to 200 block look ahead depending on the options thta came with the machine. Go to AI-NANO II you can get up to 1,000 Block Look Ahead and processing of .4ms (yes point 4). So what does this all mean in english? It means if you have it, turn it on. It's there for a reason. Your machine performs better, smoother and faster. The only types of toolpaths that don;t need it are drilling toolpaths.

 

Some builders wil turn it on automatically so you never know it's on.

HTH

 

Great explanation.

 

Doosan is the largest single purchaser of Fanuc controls on planet earth.

They do turn it on automatically for the reasons James stated.

 

You can visually see the difference in any kind of mutli-axis toolpath.

[gms1]

We got a shop full of Okuma & Howa from the late 80's early 90's. Straight up workhorses but they do not like the new hs toolpaths and they dont go fast heh.

[danielm]

If you want to move metal and lots of it I would recommend the OKUMA MA550VB/650VB 1100nm of torque on the spindle

 

We just dropped a brand new MA550 on our floor. Its a sweetheart. Geared spindle, 1000ipm feedrate (same as rapid), Hi-Cut (high speed look ahead) is standard, 36pot ATC, 50taper, thru spindle air and coolant. We added a Midaco pallet changer that works great but a drawback is that you loose 6" of Z travel. Talk to the guys at Gosiger. They're the Okuma gurus and will answer all of your questions.

[mkd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-hb0IuTqw8

who needs vericut with on machine capability like this!!

[Guest SAIPEM]

We got a shop full of Okuma & Howa from the late 80's early 90's. Straight up workhorses but they do not like the new hs toolpaths and they dont go fast heh.

 

True.

Great reliable machines but box way machines will never be as fast as the new linear guideway machines.

 

The MU400 V is an awesome machine.

Lots of power and also the ability to go fast & smooth.

Not to mention you can do some light turning on it as well.

[Mic]

 

who needs vericut with on machine capability like this!!

 

I sure do. I like to prove out programs before bringing them to the machine.

 

Does the Okuma simulation "only" offer real time simulation or does it also have a "turbo mode"?

How fast is it compared to Vericut?

Can it do feedrate optimization? (Optipath)

 

All machine simulation takes a little to setup every time. During this time the machine control is blocked. So unless you can plan your time so you only do it while the machine is running you'll end up with more downtime on the machine compared to the Vericut solution.

[Mr. M]

You can run the simulation in a high speed mode, and you can also use the PC version to check the code before it goes to the machine

[neurosis]

I would go Kitamura all the way; they have a new control "Arumatik".

Aumatik control has Mitsubishi guts and is PC based, all options are standard with Kitamura even 1600 Block look ahead. Price out the “Super Nurbs” from Okuma it will be north of 10k.

The Okuma we have still leaks spindle chiller oil somewhere even after the dealer has "looked" at it 4 times.

The OSP 200M needs to cut everything using their "High Cut" or nothing will be in tolerance.

I cannot just chain the end of square/rectangular stock sticking out from the vice there will be a cusp left on both ends and I always need to extend the geometry or extend using the lead-in / lead-out. I hate programming around machine nuances; my 18 year old Milltronics has none of the issues this thing has.

 

 

We have two new Kitamura's with Arumatik (Kitamura spelled backwards) controls. They are fast and option rich. But they are buggy as hell. I would not recommend this control to anyone.

[YoDoug®]

 

The issue shows up at 10 to 15 inches a minute without high cut.

I'm not sure that it happens with High Cut on; but why on earth must I turn on something to make the part right?

 

What are the Hi-cut parameters settings?

[YoDoug®]

I sure do. I like to prove out programs before bringing them to the machine.

 

Does the Okuma simulation "only" offer real time simulation or does it also have a "turbo mode"?

How fast is it compared to Vericut?

Can it do feedrate optimization? (Optipath)

 

All machine simulation takes a little to setup every time. During this time the machine control is blocked. So unless you can plan your time so you only do it while the machine is running you'll end up with more downtime on the machine compared to the Vericut solution.

 

Okuma offers 3DVM which is the PC version of CAS (simulation at the machine). The great part is all of the data is transferable. You set up the simulation offline on your PC, Check your program, then when its ready you transfer the set up to the machine CAS and have full in process protection.

 

As for Vericut optipath, I have used it and it is well worth the money. For cycle time reduction Okuma offers two options, TMAC or MOP tool. They are both essentially the same thing, one is developed by Okuma and the other is a Partner In Thinc product. They are adaptive spindle controls. They monitor spindle draw down to .001 horsepower. When we get the opportunity to have a machine with TMAC in our showroom we like to do two specific demonstrations. The first is we take a M4 tap at 150 RPM and drive it into a block of aluminum that we "forgot" to drill the tap drill hole. Amazingly the TMAC recognizes the spindle load and reverses without braking the tap. Only a small mark in the part. Likewise while actually tapping a hole TMAC will see increased load of a dull tap and back out. The second demo is to show the adaptive feedrate cycle time optimization. We run some milling and drilling demos to show how the feedrate adjusts in realtime to to the spindle load. The result is almost identical to OPTI-path but it is doing it realtime at the machine. (Note: TMAC is from Caron Engineering and is available for many other machines with different controls than the Okuma.)

[Newbeeee™]

... They monitor spindle draw down to .001 horsepower. When we get the opportunity to have a machine with TMAC in our showroom we like to do two specific demonstrations. The first is we take a M4 tap at 150 RPM and drive it into a block of aluminum that we "forgot" to drill the tap drill hole. Amazingly the TMAC recognizes the spindle load and reverses without braking the tap.

Wow! That is impressive.

[mkd]

well the technology is there; it is about time it gets implemented.

still very impressive.

about that good reason to have multiple controls in a shop.......

[T_MALENA]

"The issue shows up at 10 to 15 inches a minute without high cut.

I'm not sure that it happens with High Cut on; but why on earth must I turn on something to make the part right?"

 

Have you or your Okuma rep looked at your parameters?? Maybe your corner rounding accuracy is set way to high? As for the G80 dwell, I'd also be lloking into parameters. If your reseller cant help, maybe someone here? Or just take it to Okuma directly. The "cusp" thing sounds weird as does the G80 dwell. I have seen some stupid stuff (on a OSP) with turning on/off cutter comp when there wasn't enough leadin area.

 

I'll check my parameter manual to see if I can offer better advice. What Okuma & control do you have?

[chris m]

G80 in an OSP, by default, does a bunch of things that you don't want, at least in the older models. We worked around this by changing our post to output G00 Z(ret_ht) instead of G80. As far as your other issue, no idea.

 

C

[Colin Gilchrist]

I would go Kitamura all the way; they have a new control "Arumatik".

Aumatik control has Mitsubishi guts and is PC based, all options are standard with Kitamura even 1600 Block look ahead. Price out the “Super Nurbs” from Okuma it will be north of 10k.

The Okuma we have still leaks spindle chiller oil somewhere even after the dealer has "looked" at it 4 times.

The OSP 200M needs to cut everything using their "High Cut" or nothing will be in tolerance.

I cannot just chain the end of square/rectangular stock sticking out from the vice there will be a cusp left on both ends and I always need to extend the geometry or extend using the lead-in / lead-out. I hate programming around machine nuances; my 18 year old Milltronics has none of the issues this thing has.

 

The reason your cuts are leaving cusps is because of the 'Droop Control' on the Okuma. Droop Control is Okuma's term for Exact Stop.

 

The maximum permissable droop amount can be set from 0 to 1.000 mm with a parameter on the control.

 

G64 is Droop corner control off

G65 is Droop control on

 

You need to enable G65 at the start of your programs (or when finishing), and set the permissable droop amount to a tolerance you are comfortable with.

 

Note that Hi-Cut or SuperNURBS overrides these settings, which is why the cusps were eliminated when turning Hi-Cut on...

 

Hope that helps,

[cherokeechief79]

• Thank you all for your very informative replies!We are taking all of this into consideration and will have represetatives here shortly.Now i know some questions that i would never have thought of..
  
• i will let you know the outcome.
  
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