Small to Mid-size 5-axis Milling Machines

[Jim at Gentex]

My company is considering buying a small to mid-sized 5-axis mill for generally light duty mill & drill operations.

This would be used as a production machine to simultaneous 5-axis mill and drill polycarbonate lenses for flight and ground helmet visors.

 

We are looking at the Haas UMC-750 as one possibility.

 

Anyone have any recommendations for other machines in that general size and price range?

Budget would be around $250K max.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies! 

[gcode]

I don't know if these would fit your budget, but you cannot go wrong with the Okuma MU-V series.

We have 2 Okuma 5X machines here and they never fail to impress me with their power and accuracy.

[Rocketmachinist]

They are making the DMG Moris DMU 50 right near us in Davis Ca. I don't really know the pricing but it is Made in the USA and a pretty small footprint.

[jlw™]

Normally I'd say buy a Mazak Variaxis. However, as much trouble as we've had in the last two years with 5 new Mazaks... I'm gonna say find a good used Fadal.

[TheePres]

Take a look at Doosan's line of trunnion style 5 axis.

[Rstewart]

The Doosan DNM350 comes with a fanuc 31i and a spindle chiller for about 215.

[RaiderX]

Any one with direct experience with Doosan care to share what they think of the machine? it has been in consideration here.

[gcode]

My only experience with Doosan was 3 mid 90's slant bed chuckers.

I found them to be a little weak in the Z thrust dept.

An Ø1.38 spade drill in mild steel was the best they could do.

The spindle could take more, but the Z axis servo would alarm out.

Other than that they were deadly accurate and reliable machines.

My friend who owned them was still making tight parts with them when he sold his business in 2014.

They had Mitsubishi controls on them and I'd avoid them if they are still an option

[PAnderson]

Any one with direct experience with Doosan care to share what they think of the machine? it has been in consideration here.

I have direct experience since I work for Doosan. No bias here, right? To be honest, when I came to work here I was on the fence. Now that I can claim to have worked on our machines extensively, I can honestly say I like them a lot. The DNM350 is a very well constructed machine at almost 19,000 lbs. Very large castings for the trunnion setup, which is built on a 3 axis style bed. 12K spindle, chiller, chilled ball screws. I am not a salesman so I don't believe in bullxxxxting people even though I work here. If I didn't believe in our machine, I would not post at all. Call me if you have any questions

 

Paul Anderson

Applications Engineer

973-618-2457.

[Jim at Gentex]

Thanks for all of the input.

I have passed the recommendations along to the person in charge of the project, so we'll see what happens.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

When I was starting at my current job the higher-ups had already decided to go with Haas.  I strongly recommended against it what with Haas' reputation as it has been.  I was able to heavily influence the exact model and options though, and we went with a VF-3SS with a TR160Y trunnion.  It's been running almost a year now, and I've been pleasantly surprised with how well it's behaving.  It's also very easy to use.  So I'd say the UMC-750 probably won't disappoint you.  Parts and service are also pretty good.  Make sure to get the "Next Gen" control that came out a couple months after we got our machine; it has some significant improvements.

[RaiderX]

When I was starting at my current job the higher-ups had already decided to go with Haas.  I strongly recommended against it what with Haas' reputation as it has been.  I was able to heavily influence the exact model and options though, and we went with a VF-3SS with a TR160Y trunnion.  It's been running almost a year now, and I've been pleasantly surprised with how well it's behaving.  It's also very easy to use.  So I'd say the UMC-750 probably won't disappoint you.  Parts and service are also pretty good.  Make sure to get the "Next Gen" control that came out a couple months after we got our machine; it has some significant improvements.

 

I too have experience with the Haas and cannot argue any thing against what you are saying.

my experience tho was over 5 years with trunion type setup. more years and some serious abuse netted us some serious down time.

It seriously depends on type of work, schedule (up time needed) and expectations.

this would be why we are looking at Doosan.  fanuc control and servo's, loook ahead speed, accuracy, rigidety and longevity??

Haas gets the job done

[Mick]

I have a customer with a Haas UMC750. He is really pleased with it so far, but it is early days, so time will tell.

 

We have a Okuma MU500V-II. Great machine, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another MU.

[Guest]

Take a look at the Matsuura MX-330... this is in that price range. Comes with CAMplete for posting and collision detection.

 

You'll get a true 5-Axis machine not just a xMC with rotaries slapped on it. Designed and built from the ground up to meet a need in that size. I'd put it up against ANY machine in it's class.

 

JM2CFWIW.

[jlw™]

We have two Haas machines in our shop. Identical horizantals, 3 axis. 120in in X, 40in in Y and Z. They both have 50 taper spindles and we go full beast mode with 4in feedmills and 8in facemills daily. They consistently work and have needed way less "work" than any one of the 16 Mazaks.

 

However, they have their place. That place is roughing burn outs for other machines to finish or noncritical weldments and stuff. The newest one, we've had the longest loses 0.008in across the 120in in X and will interpolate a tight circle that is only 0.0035in out of round. The other, newer to us but older control is actually a better control in my opinion. It's significantly more accurate but we've only had it a year or so. We'll beat the brakes off of it too. They both mostly chamfer or square burnouts. Any who, don't expect to be circle milling dowel holes with it.

 

I personally have minimal experience with Haas outside of these two, I'd say pass if you want accuracy.

[mkd]

 The newest one, we've had the longest loses 0.008in across the 120in in X and will interpolate a tight circle that is only 0.0035in out of round. The other, newer to us but older control is actually a better control in my opinion. It's significantly more accurate but we've only had it a year or so. We'll beat the brakes off of it too. They both mostly chamfer or square burnouts. Any who, don't expect to be circle milling dowel holes with it.

 

If you said that about any CNC. i'd say there was something wrong mechanically. If you are running a 2.0 HSS rougher in a 5" deep bore taking .030 per side, in steel, as your finish pass and getting .0035" roundness on a Haas, i'd say; yep.

 

I can get roundness within tenths on my 2002 Haas. just sayin.

 

 

 

to the OP:

funny, a lot of the same on this PM thread

 also if your just doing 3+2 the "regular" Haas UMC might suffice. Doing full 5axis, I'd only consider the SS model, as is the one with roller-cam drive rotaries.

[jlw™]

Haas has no in between people, love or hate. I like what Haas has built and they are as American as a company can be.

 

I think I'd feel different if I get my hands on a new or unabused one.

 

To be honest, I'd love to try out a UMC. However, my pallette needs cleansing given the taste in my mouth now.

 

 

And no, I mean with a brand new Guhring 1/2in em fuzzing a few tenths at a time. Its consistent.

[mkd]

Haas has no in between people, love or hate. I like what Haas has built and they are as American as a company can be.

 

I think I'd feel different if I get my hands on a new or unabused one.

 

To be honest, I'd love to try out a UMC. However, my pallette needs cleansing given the taste in my mouth now.

 

 

And no, I mean with a brand new Guhring 1/2in em fuzzing a few tenths at a time. Its consistent.

absolutely a maintenance issue. replace the ball screw bearings first. (edit: or get a ball bar test)

 I'm a fan of Haas market strategy and laugh at some of the design issues.

[Guest]

I love Haas shops. As they grow and their needs change, they become Matsuura shops. :

[mkd]

I love Haas shops. As they grow and their needs change, they become Matsuura shops. :

Can you sprinkle some of that pixie dust over here? I'd love to grow into a '330

[jlw™]

We ain't replacing shït, like I said they have their place... right where they sit beating the hell out of burnouts and weldments.

[Guest]

The fantastic thing since the Matsuura/Methods divorce is prices dropped on average 15%. Matsuura machines are within reach for more shops than ever these days. :

[jlw™]

Do they make a gantry mill or big åss vtl?

[Guest]

Do they make a gantry mill or big åss vtl?

Nope, Matsuura refuses to be all things to all people. They continue to do what they do well which is premium machining centers.

 

Their largest is the MAM72-100H which is a Horizontal 5-Axis trunion style machine with 1,000mm x 770mm capacity.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Haas has no in between people, love or hate. I like what Haas has built and they are as American as a company can be.

 

I think I'd feel different if I get my hands on a new or unabused one.

 

To be honest, I'd love to try out a UMC. However, my pallette needs cleansing given the taste in my mouth now.

 

 

And no, I mean with a brand new Guhring 1/2in em fuzzing a few tenths at a time. Its consistent.

 

Any old beat-up old poorly maintained machine will do that.  That said I do think Haas has really upped their game in the last few years.  Again, less than a year on the machine and I run prototypes rather than production, but holding tenths is pretty easy.  We had a laser cal and ball-bar on installation.