PROGRAMMERS AND OPERATORS

[HEAVY METAL]

Unless it is a straight forward part most of the time after my program hits the floor it requires some tweaking. Either out at the control or a repost with the tweaks from me.Is this the normal routine for you guys in the forum or are your programs right on from the get go.Most tweaks have to do with feed rate adjustment and depths of cut, etc. I have a couple of operators who just dial everything back right from the start and never run it at what i program it.I then here it from the boss why this job is taking so long come to find out they have the

operations cut way back because they are having problems but they dont tell me about so we can work it out. part of it is the just want more xxxx time. has anyone of you ever had these problems.

 

needed to vent

thanks heavy

[mayday]

boy are my ears ringing.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

here we programe ..setit up and run first few pieces it gives you a chance to fine tune then turn it over to the operaters unless its a repeater or a very simple straight forward part then they run what we gve them and i still find guys backing of the rapid rates and the feed rate for more "xxxx time" as you said one guy we caught was running the same piece over and over to dam lazy to even get off his xxxx to change the part ..hope he likes sitting home on his couch because when people call for a reference i tellem like it is... piece of s@#%t...

[RandleXX]

Everyday..

[Brendan P]

You mean that you have guys that are actually "smart enough" to turn the speeds and feeds down?

I go through this crap all the time.

 

I have had them get really pissed at me when I first took over,the Co. wanted things to go faster.

They cried that it was going too fast and was not efficient.

I would just tell them to step aside.

[HEAVY METAL]

Some of my operators would take offense if I went out there and set up the job. They dont want any help or suggestions and the get smart when I offer an idea. I dont get some people. I never belittle an operator I just try to make suggestions or ideas to help them out .I want them to be able to think on their own. I dont want to do it for them. they will never learn anything that way

heavy

[Toolfab]

Heavy your preaching to the choir here. This happens to me all the time. I have one operator that actully reads, LINE FOR FREAKIN LINE the hole program, cuz he understands it. Then turns the pot down to 50% AND STILL MANAGES TO MISS AN A ROTATE and the part is scraped.

 

We call them PHD's, push here dummy!

[CAM-mando]

quote:

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has anyone of you ever had these problems.

---

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

 

Some operators will make a program sing and others have to have their hand held. And like you said it seems to have more to do with attitude than aptitude.

 

CAM teh feelin' your pain.

[Toolfab]

I dont know about you guys but ya, I screw up program's once in a while, bone head stuff, wrong depth, not enough clearance stuff like that. What I love is the order is for 6 pieces, the operator runs ALL 6 then tells inspection that the Z depth is to deep and I should get credit for all six pieces. MY xxxx, you give me the ticket for the first one, the next 5 are all yours!

 

Who runs a part complete, sticks in another and hits the go button without CHECKING THE FIRST 100% FIRST....

[HEAVY METAL]

Been there seen that Toolfab. I feel ya

[chris m]

I usually stand next to the operator the first time thru a new job [really new, not just a mod to an existing job] to see what the machine sounds like, look for any probs, etc. We then make our mods in the program while it is in the machine and finish the job. Then, if I think of it, I change the MC file to be like what's in the machine....

 

Any major tweaks I'll reprogram, repost, and send it back to the machine so the MC file is right.

 

C

[jenks]

Everday.

 

I have some that change speeds and feeds by less than 1 percent, just to show they know more than anyone else.

 

Like I give a rat's butt, you don't get any credit for what you do anyway.

[Brendan P]

quote:

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I have one operator that actully reads, LINE FOR FREAKIN LINE the hole program,

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I have operators who try to read the program only to try to tell me that it is wrong before they even run it.

I tell them:Stop trying to figure out what it is doing cause you can't read it anyway.

 

This may sound a little harsh,but I get fed up with the additudes that fly around the shop.

They are always whining about something.

I swear if you gave some guys $10.00...

They would cry that it wasn't $20.00

 

When I worked out on the floor,I pumped out as much work as I could just to make the boss say: WTF!!!

 

And just to be a Pr#$*...I tell them that I can easily come back out in the shop and do their job,but could they sit in my chair for an afternoon???

 

And not once has any of them asked how to learn mastercam!!!!

[jbel]

Out of about 8 operators we have about two decent guys. By decent i mean that they can be trusted to indicate a part in flat and square when they put it in a vise. We run lots of the same stuff over and over and most with long cycle times (4-6 or even 8 hours).

 

With four machines on the floor and a 24-7 operation this means that if one operator is working alone on a shift he may have to do two or three setups on his shift. Four if he has a rough day.

 

Our guys dont care enough to even get through only a couple setups a shift.

OFTEN machines sit when they should be up and running. I can do one of these setup in 30 minutes and I don't do them everyday.

So, on first shift there are 4 operators and 4 machines but the machines STILL sit when they are done.

 

ONE GUY ONE MACHINE, and they are sitting idle!!!

 

On Saturdays and Sundays I come in for the OT and can easily run three machines, four if I hustle, and still have BS time. I mean COME ON doesn't anybody care??

 

And let's not even talk about the infighting between different shifts. If I hear

"The night shift guys screwed up again"

or

"I'm one guy on night shift and I do as much work as 4 guys on days"

or

"Hey this job is screwed up, it must have been run on night shift"

ever again I just might have a nervous breakdown.

 

People are very fast to point out the errors of others but never quite able to step up to the plate and admit it when they make an error.

 

 

Thank you for allowing me the time to vent..

[Code_Breaker]

I use to get so

 

But decided that there are no perfect programmers and no perfect programs.

 

I have had operators change rpm/feed one time and then changed them again after cutting 30 parts.

 

Oh well, I just do the best I can and try to pay close attention to details.

 

Code_Breaker

[A-ron1286490684]

The operators here were really apprehensive when I first started and my programs hit the floor. Conservative, if anything, is what I give them and if they want to speed things up they can edit the program incrementally without using broken tools as indicators that edits are needed. Unfortunately we are a hodge podge of different styles in the vert mill dept since the two companies merged and need to have three or four different posts on hand depending on whom you were working with that day. We had a universal master Fanuc/Yasnac post that worked in conjunction with a couple of resident macros for about three or four different vertical mills but the powers that be caved to individual preferences and each line of machines got there own personalized program headers, tool callouts, and safety lines. Luckily the repeat jobs tend to stay on the lines they first ran on. It was really frustrating and it almost seemed that program format took precedent over job approach, feeds and speeds and documentation. It was the tail wagging the dog but what do you do. Now, being a reletively new rookie on the large Mazak horizontals, I get to prove out my own stuff and it’s probably safer that way for the time being. I have yet to hand off a program on the large horizontals but still start conservative on my own programs -especially while building confidence on the big toys.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it…

[Eazy]

I know how you feel guys. One of my operators is such a whimp. He slows down all the feeds and speeds that I program, and then asks why the tool life isn't very good.

[Rekd™]

I used to be one of those setup guys that was always tweaking stuff. It was mostly because the programmer was never a machinist, and lacked certain basic concepts that are essential to being a good programmer. I found out early on that programmers were all different and all human.

 

:ramble:

Tweaking programs early on did several things for me, including making me a better machinist, and later a better programmer. Most of my career has been in both worlds, programming and handing off to a setup guy, while programming and running something else myself on another machine. (Or just me running around the shop by myself with a broom up you know where.)

 

 

There's always gonna be something. I've had issues with people in the past getting uppity about a program, and the best way to deal with it is compromise; instead of him saying I got a crappy program and me saying he's a lousy machinist, try working as a team. If you find something wrong with my program, that's a positive for you, especially if you haven't run the tool yet. I realize that and react accordingly while I'm showing them they forgot to set something or read the setup sheet completely, even on a simple part.

 

Eventually, (or maybe after a talking to), they will realize it's easier to be positive and solve problems together than to butte heads. You're always gonna butte heads with someone no matter what, but in general, a calm response is key.

:/ramble:

 

'Rekd

 

quote:

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but in general, a calm response is key.

---

Did I really just say that?

[jspangler]

Hi

Do you guys have anyone who, say out of a hundred parts, on his 98th one still has to WATCH the friggin' machine with his finger on the cycle stop button?!?!

 

DUDE, WTF!!

 

John

 

 

[Rekd™]

John, the reason his finger is on the button is he's leaning on it trying to look like he's doing something.

 

'Rekd

[Brendan P]

hey....

It could be worse,he could have it on the e-stop button.

Or better yet,up his.........

[Elmer Fudd]

The first comment I always hear is "THIS PROGRAM IS FETCHED UP". I wished my opperators knew the differance between a 1/4" and a 3/8" endmill. Dan

[gcode]

Last week I programmed a job for a 5X HMC.

They brought me a tool list from the floor

and said these were the tools they bought for the job.

The finish tool was a 3/16 ball endmill with a 38 inch gage length to reach deep inside a missile body.

I was told the machine wouldn't repeat with tools that long so we should cut the part heavy, measure it and adjust the cuts.

My first cuts were way off , but after 2 days of cutting, measuring and tweaking, we were making good parts.

 

The next afternoon, the night shift foreman comes in and wants to know why the setup sheet says

the finish tool is a 3/16 ball, when the actual

tool was a 6mm (.235 ) ball insert mill.

The setup guy has given me an old tool list

and I didn't check it.

No wonder my first trial cuts were so bad

[bhyde]

Last job I had this was a huge issue. Current job, everyone is responsible for their own programs and running their own messes. Uh...well...all except one...He is TOO busy to learn MasterCam. I get to program his parts...One time I made him a program, he hit the go button on a drill and walked away. Then blames me for scrapping the part.. My response...You can always do your OWN programming. I have enuff to do without your added overhead. Nice to be able to say that!

[Scott Bond]

IMHO(The only one I have)

The best shop environment has Programmers, Set-up men, and Operators.

Operators change parts,fill oil tanks , check coolant, sweep chips, and basic material handling.

Set up guys make and locate tooling, check and set tool lengths, locate the part on the machine, and run thru the first part making light gcode editing tweaks and or little notes to the programmer to fix for the next part. Set-up man also delivers the first part to inspection,and stays with the set-up until he can pass it to an operator, and move to the next project.

Programmers have the best deal of the three and must to everything they can think of to make everything work.

I made a shop flow chart so that each person in the chain can see how his work affects the other stations, or how they affect his. This has been the best communication I have ever had with the other positions. No Body knows everything, it is important to have a team that cares enough about each other to fess up to

what they don't know , and then do something about it.

The flow chart records everything from when we answer the phone, until we ship the part.

I was amazed how the bottle necks expose themselves in the flow chart.

 

I have found that some people don't know because they don't want to know. And those are the men remain operators,they don't make good set-up guys,but we need them to change parts and remove chips.

Scott teh' Fish rots at the head.