PROGRAMMERS AND OPERATORS

[dinoracer]

I get to program,set up and run the parts. I rarely ever scrap one I am just curious on when you feel like you are a good programmer. Right now I am starting up on 4th axis learning with a book and starting from scratch again. I never saw CNC run until I programmed one However I was a machinist/moldmaker for 10 years. Now to find someplace in So cal to help figure out the 4th axis stuff, That scares me. First time I posted something I saw a feed rate on the A axis of F370 when all of the other feedrates were f60. Gets kind of scary when your the only machinist in the shop. When something goes boom everyone looks at you funny.

[Fig sign]

I have seen all sorts of operators and machinists ,but I have seen also a lot of bad programmers !

 

That`s why I like to work alone .

I am a solo player and the only one operator/machonist/programmer at my place .

And I can always be in good relations with myself

 

Iskander teh lonely wolf

[Marty A]

HEAVY

i hear you loud and clear

i'm the one who trained this one operater

how to run the machines.now it seems i

don't know anything. he will hit the

button and walk away.can you here the crash

yea some times like Toolfab said, your

going to screw up.but a good operator will

catch it on simple things. we were doing

somethine new the other day and i told the

operator to keep your eye on this one

program. his response? f@#^%$ that i'm just

hitting the button and walking away. well the owner was there and guess what, good program

bad operator. seems he didn't have his tool dia

in his offset and well that pocket had to be half

the cutter bigger any ways.operators response?

i didn't know it had tool comp in the program.

duhhhhh we do this all the time don't ya know.

so i asked him why was the offset set at zero,

why don't you leave half the cutter in there at

all times.operators respone? umm i don't know

yea ok. so have good day all

 

 

:banghead:marty

[chris m]

GCode, love that story man! I'll bet you were pissed!

 

I always program my cutting tools to the exact RPM that the SFM i want to run gives me with no rounding [2619 vs. 2600]. This way when I look at a program in the machine control I can immediately see whether the operator has been messing or not. We used to have a guy who would change the programs to run EVERY DRILL at 1100 RPM regardless of size, drill mat'l, workpiece mat'l, whatever; talk about your productivity booster...

 

After a spirited discussion, he elected to run my programmed speeds and feeds

 

 

C

[MATT Q]

I like it when they set the job up and it is misaligned and it is the PROGRAMMERS FAULT be cause the program is all messed up. If you don't understand it blame that part of it is how they do it here. So I do my own setups for new jobs and first production runs.

[ScottyB]

WOW, I'm happy to hear that you guys screw up or need to tweak your programs. I thought I was the only one.

For most new programs, I will go out and HELP run the first couple parts. My operators can tweak the the minor changes themselves. If something needs overhauling, I do it in the office.

We're fortunate in the fact that my 2 operators have been working with me for 6 or 7 years. I know the limitations of each one and I'm sure they know mine. Maybe we're not the best trio in the world but knock-on-wood...we have never had a major crash on either machine. Maybe we should have one just to remind everyone that just putting a damn (.) in the wrong place can cost $20k.

I have experienced everything mentioned in this thread, but my pet peeve is when you go out to the shop and the operator is not there. Is it coincidence that he is always checking a part or checking with maintenance, or getting a sample when I come down...Oh well. There may be a couple better operators out there, but there are hundreds that are worse. They might say the same about their programmer, and that's ok. I'm headed back to the classroom in 2 weeks to boost my value.

"Don't sweat the petty things, Pet the sweaty things!!!!"

ScottyB.

[ScottyB]

Ooops, dbl. post.

Post count +1

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

My favorite is when I've run a program, made good parts with the program, made good fixtures etc... then when it goes to production... "... your program sucks, it keeps cutting into (insert your favorite high dollar work holding device) and it's making scrap...".

 

So I go out, look at the setup sheet, and look at the setup and there is no resemblance. I call out the part hang off the end so much on the left and 6 inches between the fixed jaw of the left vise and right vise. And they say "... I didn't know that was important..."

 

Not that I'm perfect... far from it actually. But, it gets me mad when we've made thousands of parts with a program, then all of the sudden "... I can't get a good part with your program...". SO I gou out there and I see End Mills in drill chucks, drills in tapping holders, drills with runout so bad I can see it when the tool is stationary.

[mayday]

quote:

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I see End Mills in drill chucks,

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[HEAVY METAL]

I ounce saw an operator have his edge finder in a chuck upside down.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

+1 Mayday, +1.....

 

James teh ...who trained these guys...???

[mayday]

here's a good one anyone running mazaks prolly have seen this. a guy puts his indicator in a drill chuck and Then hits spindle orientate ever count how many parts are inside?

 

makes me laugh cause the dummys do it again and again.

[MetalMarvels]

Not to mention forgeting to set the spindle speed to something reasonable and/or turning down the spindle speed % with a nice new edge finder in the holder. 12,000 RPM and you have a nice edge finder bullet.......

 

I get to program my parts, set them up, and run them. While I am getting much better and require fewer tweaks - I still have the occasional brain dump. Early this week, I programmed for a 1/2 endmill - installed a 3/4 endmill - set it all up - hit go - and CRINGED. Dang it - that part is awfull small..........

[chris m]

quote:

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I once saw an operator have his edge finder in a chuck upside down.

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I believe that's called a rotary burnishing tool...

 

The Weldon shank endmill in the collet chuck is my personal favorite

 

C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Dang it - that part is awfull small...

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ROFL!!!

[G Caputo]

Sounds like I might be one of the lucky ones in here. All of the people running my programs are journeyman machinists. On day shift, the person with the least amount of time here is 9 years, the most 19. On the off shifts there is 6 minimum to 15 maximum years here. Everyone has been through a 4 year apprenticeship, and they all can read and write there own programs efficiently. I only program 5 horizontal bar mills and I never look at what it posts out anymore unless I am having a problem getting mastercam to do what I want, then I look at the program so I can figure out what I am doing wrong in mastercam. We have all our posts dialed in perfectly for each machine, so I never even look at the program anymore when I post it if it looks good in backplot and verify. The hardest part is getting them a detailed description of set ups so they don't hit clamps, the tables etc.

We also have the first 22 tools set up in each machine identical, with all the feeds and speeds agreed upon by all of us. 99% of what we cut is all 4140 ht, dcf material so that helps too.

The 2 things that bothers me the most is the damn foreman saying it's a cam program, hit the button and walk away. They expect it to be perfect because the program was made by a computer with no regards as to the moron (me) telling the computer what to do. And the second is the guy that has been here the longest saying "All I have to do is hit the button and walk away". He acts like he is a minmum wage operator when he is probably the highest paid machinist in the shop. It just pi$$es me off to no end.

 

Sorry abount that rant, but I feel better now.

 

Greg

[Peccator]

The way that it was around here was that all of the operators were saying that our (Archie and I) speeds and feeds were a little too high. With that in mind scheduling and planning has decided that we set our S/F a little lower to allow the ops. to achieve a good part the first time. Then tweak the program in from there. It is our job (Archie and I) to see that the "Good" program gets back on the server.

But, what happens now is that when the program is running and it is not running within the time allowed and the operator is asked why, they always say, "Well, that is the way it was sent to us."

 

You know, I can't figure it out, when I was on the machine I was notorious for tweaking. It goes with the territory!!!!!

 

 

Shane

[Noel]

Just had an opperator come to me after scrapping a part, number 6 out of 12 with number 7 running in the machine(scrap as well)He cant figure out why the y offset is sudenly out by .06" 6 parts in to the job when the first 5 were good.Must be a Fadel thing. Be nice if he would check the part that came off of the machine before pushing the button for the next.To busy reading the paper he keeps hidden under his bench I guess.

 

 

Noel

[Jack Mitchell]

quote:

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makes me laugh cause the dummys do it again and again.

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Hey Mayday - I have done this at least 4 times myself.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[David Czerw Triumph Gear Systems]

I've been in 3 shops in the past 13 years. The crap never stops. What happened to the guys that actually want to become more than a button- pusher? I' started at the bottom and worked/ learned my way up. Idon't see that happening anymore. Where I'm at now I would say the majority of the guys can't write a simple program if they had too .While I'm at it you know what really burns my butt The inspection dept. They think they are gods or something. 1st pc " you need to adj. "X by +.010" The very next pc. "move "X" -.020"

[mayday]

quote:

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I have done this at least 4 times myself.

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sorry Jack, I have to give you the

 

 

[Jack Mitchell]

So I deserve a few bonks - who in here doesn't?

Only four untimely spin outs in roughly 25 years ain't so bad - I have still abused at least ten of those 1/2" center edge finders that used to be manufactured in Athol.

 

The Mitutoyo vertical indicators can really take a beating, the Interapids don't take the quick spin very well.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[HEAVY METAL]

After thinking about and reading everybodys stories, I realize that I'm going to have to go out on the floor more and baby sit the ones that need it. It just makes me when some of thes guys have 10-20 years in the trade.I guess on way of looking at it is it will give me some leverage for a raise

[mayday]

seems to boil down to guys that care and guys that dont, some will just never change. for those I try and take extra time to make sure things are right. thats about all ya can do

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...some of thes guys have 10-20 years in the trade...

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Running a drill press for a big aerospace company for that long should not qualify you as being "in the trade".