A question for 5 axis users

[gcode]

How do the 5 axis users out there verify their files.

 

I can't say why, but its important. If you use 5axis toolpaths, take the time to do this.

 

 

I'll go first...

 

I never use Verify for 4 or 5 axis work because

I don't trust it. If you are working with multiple toolplanes, your file may verify perfectly yet post complete garbage. On large models it is also too slow to be useable.

 

I have purchased Predator and verfiy gcode exclusively. I use Verify only for the simplest

3 axis work.

 

 

What I want to know is,

does anybody out there rely on Mastercam Verify

for 4 and 5 axis work. If not, why??

[mayday]

quote:

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does anybody out there rely on Mastercam Verify

for 4 and 5 axis work

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for now,yes cause thats all I have. besides backplot we somtimes add 5" or 10" to our TLO and dry run at the machine to be safe

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

I have always preferred to use backplot to check out 5ax paths rather than verify. Something like vericut is nice and does well, but I still prefer the wire frame backplot.

 

I can tell more about the toolpath that way. I'll alt/w and call up 4 views on particularlytough parts, and if you run in shaded mode you can look for the "bleed thru" of the tool on the surf.

[gcode]

quote:

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I have always preferred to use backplot

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I use backplot a lot, but it can still backplot right and post very very wrong.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

I have been surpised at the machine also when working on a post. Vericut would be a very good option for the gcode verification cause it simulates the whole machine. Some molds that I've cut have the whole 5ax head assembly down in side of it, and it is vrey possible to retract the back of the spindle into the part.

[steve f]

I use backplot and verify for all my 5 axis toolpaths...no major crunches yet (crossing fingers).

 

Alot of the work I program is 3D mould type stuff and I use verify on every toolpath to check for rapid motion gouging and it works fine for me. One of the most unpredictable things I dealt with when starting 5 axis work was retract motion so I've hard coded the post (head-head router) to retract the same every time. For 3+2 it'll retract to z4.0, re-position and continue only if there's a change in indexing angles. For 5ax continuous it retracts to z4.0 only at the end of the operation.

 

My retract method could afford to be faster but it works every time and because I'm contract programming, I sleep at night.

 

steve

[mayday]

sometimes Im my own verify. once in a while I just get a feeling it its right or not. sorta a 6th sence. and then somtimes the loud noise will tell me im all wet too

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

I use both verify and back plot, each seems to have some good points. LOL Wes I hope your not hearing many loud noises?

[Mike Whitten CAD/CAM Contractors]

gcode,

 

We use Mastercam's Five Axis Verify and Northwood Design's, Metacut Five Axis Simulation.

 

We do a very small amount of Five Axis Simultaneous so we could not justify the cost of Vericut. I honestly didn't check out Predator. I don't know why?

 

I believe that G-code Verification / Simulation is really the only way to go though. It is an absolute must for big expensive stuff.

 

Mike

[iowajim62]

lathe

[Bruce Caulley]

Backplot in step mode and verify. We are getting vericut in may.

 

Bruce

[gcode]

quote:

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We are getting vericut in may

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Could you expalin why you find it neccessary to spend that kind of money???

[mayday]

quote:

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Wes I hope your not hearing many loud noises?

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I've learned to turn up the radio j/k

 

how ya been Don ? I have been so swamped I no longer have time to

 

"backplot/verify ??? Ha Ha, post the code an let er fly"

 

had been my motto lately

I no longer have hair and I have gone from drinking to sure I'll have drink

Katie says she wants us to send some snow your way

you tell her there is all she can ever want around here

[kccadcam]

After looking at Vericut and Predator,

I think we are going to get Predator.

It will do what we need for a LOT less money.

The problem with Mastercam backplot or verify

is it does not show the tool transition between t-planes when indexing(personal bad experience on horizontal)

[gcode]

quote:

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After looking at Vericut and Predator,

I think we are going to get Predator.

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Is it safe to say you are looking because

Verify is not working for you??

[Harryman]

Backplot only.

[kccadcam]

quote:

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Is it safe to say you are looking because

Verify is not working for you??

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No, between the watertight issues and the not showing index moves I'm really disappointed with verify.

 

Also, looking to verify the actual gcode, not the NCI.

[TomHemphill]

We are doing 5 ax cylinder head work and use backplot mostly with a shaded tool and unshaded part for speed (shaded tool shaded part goes too slow) to check tool shank containment...been good so far but we're just learning so lots of time to screw up although I have caught& fixed several shank problems that would have been broken tools

Tom

[Richard@WCCH]

quote:

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We are doing 5 ax cylinder head work and use backplot mostly with a shaded tool and unshaded part for speed (shaded tool shaded part goes too slow) to check tool shank containment...been good so far but we're just learning so lots of time to screw up although I have caught& fixed several shank problems that would have been broken tools

Tom

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Hi Tom. Just curious as to what type of 5 axis machine your using? I think you'll find M/C has some very nice tools for 5 axis head porting.

Of course the learning curve is nearly vertical........

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

[Thad]

quote:

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you tell her there is all she can ever want around here

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My backyard a few days ago.

 

 

Thad

[Bruce Caulley]

Gcode,

We have 7x5 axis machines as well as about 20x4 axis horizontals and 3 axis verticals. Our company is starting to concentrate on small volume aerospace and defence work. We only have 2 full time programmers. A couple of pricey jobs have been scrapped recently due to issues that could have been picked up with something like vericut. I know predator is not as many $$$, but management have some other ideas as far as reducing setting times go. They would like to reduce the time it takes to actually prove parts out. We spend a couple of shifts getting a part just right and then 5 hours making the 3 or 4 parts that are in the order. Myself and my fellow colleague and forum member Diarmuid have used every trick that has come up on this forum and a few dramas still slip through the cracks. Management would like to "prove" new parts in vericut using all up to date fixture and tool data. It is probably overkill, but the new parts we are seeing aren't getting any easier. Some make your hair stand on end!!

 

Basically we want to make our lives easier so we can concentrate on improving the way we do things rather than spending time putting out fires on every new job. Backplot and verify help, but verify is a little underdone for our needs at the moment.

 

Bruce

[DC Gorn]

We use that Camaix system. It combinds their MultiXpost and their simulator. The simulator is not as powerfull as vericut but is a economic atlernitive. I got the post wizard to so I can add other 5axis machines. I think if they made the interface a bit easyer to use and tie everything together they would have a real home run. Right now its a bit cryptic. Even having them come to my site and custom make everything for me (turn key) cost less then vericut. I think the Germans like to make stuff hard

[MIL-TFP-41]

Backplot & verify here. Suprisingly, in contradiction with most here, I have better luck with verify than backplot.

 

Example...one time I was using the "edit random parameters"..(ok, edit common parameters) to change toolplanes. On one of my operations the toolplane got lost so the c-plane & the t-plane was different, but it backplotted perfectly. Unfortunatly, it was far from perfect & crash. Verify did catch the crash tho (after the fact, of course)

[TomHemphill]

Richard

 

Millport Rhino mill w/ Centroid control A&B axis' are on a table we built with 1 centroid rotary(A) and 1 Troyke( ...works ok as far as accuracy but when all 5 are moving at once the feedrate slows down a bunch (also digitizing on this machine) As far as the learning being vertical...you said a mouthful there!Mike Rosa at CNC Software saves my butt on a regular basis Mastercam was a big bite for a small shop like ours but I know now it was well worth the investment

 

Tom

[Richard@WCCH]

Tom,

I looked at the Millport Rhino several years ago. I couldn't afford it at the time, then I happened onto the Fadal I'm currently using. I built my own 5 axis fixture and am really happy. I bought a touch probe when I purchased Mastercam and can digitize on the machine as well. It was a big hit for a little shop like mine, but it's proving to be the right choice. Tom Shelar has been instrumental in getting my programming up to speed out here. I understand Mike Rosa is the 5 axis genius at CNC Software and is mostly responsible for the toolpaths we use for porting. He's a very smart guy.

Good luck with your programming Tom.

 

Sorry for the off topic chatter everyone.

 

Richard