Maintenance expiring

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

Hi all,

 

We have decided to let the maintenance expire. Can anybody tell me if there will be any problems with 9.1 or X ?

 

I have installed all maintenance releases but I imagine that those should be mine to keep and I just won't be able to get new releases, right ?

 

Or will I be forced to re-install Mastercam and only update it with non-maintenance updates ?

 

Thanks

[Guest]

Well, that's too bad Matt. You will miss out on the upgrades that maintenance will allow you to have. There is talk of new toolpathing routines and other expansions but you have decided to miss out on those. V9.1 is done with enhancement, so what you have, is what you have. In X they are still logging and trying to fix bugs but the next release is scheduled to be an MR release, so unless you are on maintenance you will not get these fixes either. My understanding is a new feature that was added as a maintenance upgrade will be lost. (I could be wrong on this) The STEP translator was an add-on under M0105 if you use it it will no longer be available. Unless you previously purchased a license. Many of these questions are probably better asked of your reseller, as they can explain exactly, what you are going to lose.

 

Before you do it you might want to figure out the cost of upgrading in say, oh, 3 yrs. I'll bet you 2 things. The cost of upgraing in 3 yrs from where your seat is now will cost more than the 3 yrs of mainteance and in 3 yrs you'll be upgrading your software.

 

Do you own a seat of any other CAD/CAM software?

 

Do you pay maintenance of that seat? If you do I I'm sure what ever you pay is more than the cost of Mastercam.

 

[ 11-13-2005, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: jmparis ]

[George Hardwick]

John.

Just out of interest you are testing MR0105 ?

When will that be available?

Geo.

[Guest]

No George, I'm not lucky enough to be a beta tester.

 

MR0105 was the last maintenance release on V9.

 

I read that the latest MR for X is in beta now has been for a couple of weeks. Beyond that, I dunno?

 

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

At the moment, we do not have another seat. We are, however seriously thinking of switching to another brand which is why we are letting maintenance expire. Our new prospect has no maintenance charge and free support for life (in writing on our quote).

[Guest]

So let me understand this.

 

You pay no maintence fees, you get free software upgrades?

 

You get free lifetime support?

I'd love to see how good THAT is.

 

How about post-processors?

No CAM system is any good without a post that gives you what you need.

 

Are those free too?

 

You know the old saying Matt, if something sounds to good to be true, it usually is.

 

Sounds to me like that just might apply here.

 

The only system I am aware of, the has no maint contract is Bobcam, there might be others I am unaware of, if you're really considering going THAT low end. All I'll say is, you'll be back.

 

So for all the money that has been spent already on your proven mastercam seat, your going to throw it our for what amounts to a few dollars a day and then respend more money on another CAM system?

 

It does not make a bit of sense to me.

 

You could pay the maintenance for several yrs have all the upgrades, be on the cutting edge of the technology as it grows or spend all that money and then some more on a promise.

 

 

 

 

[ 11-13-2005, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: jmparis ]

[Steel Surgeon]

Matt just out of curiosity what is the new prospect???

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

I hope I don't get flamed too badly about this post. I really just want to know how many problems to expect when my maintenance expires.

 

The new product is OneCNC. No maintenance ever. Updates and additions are free. I will have to pay to upgrade to the next level.

 

Post processor... This is very exciting to me. OneCNC allows you to configure the post processor directly and simply within the program. I am not smart enough to deal with Mastercam Posts but from what I've been shown, OneCNC will be fast and easy for me to modify.

 

We are having problems with the number of seats of Mastercam we own. We have 1 seat of Mill 3 and 2 seats of Mill 1. There is constantly a problem with something needing to be tweaked and not being able to even VIEW THE PARAMETERS of surface toolpaths in the Mill 1 seats. So there we are... Upgrade to Mill 3 or try something else. We are going to get 10 seats that are EQUIVALENT to Mill 3 with SOLIDS for a very attractive price. I've seen a live demo... I really believe this stuff is top quality and if anybody has anything to say about it I'd love to hear it.

 

Again, I hope I won't be flamed too much about this... I just want my original question answered... But so many questions...

[Guest]

I believe that when your maintenance expires you will have to re-installl pre-any MR releases. When I was on vacation in Sept our temp code expired and MC would not run, they needed to get another code.

 

10 seats to replace 3, two of which are limited in ability. Yup sounds like a good move.

 

NO flames here, just a hearty

 

Good Luck!!!

[gcode]

Matt,

The only thing I know about OneCNC is that they have a pretty webpage.

You are about to spend a bunch of money for completely new software.

 

Any competent salesman can make a software package

look like the "next big thing"

I seriously doubt that it is

quote:

---

EQUIVALENT to Mill 3 with SOLIDS

---

If it was, the price wouldn't be so attractive.

 

I strongly suggest you get a FULL 30-90 day

temporary license and play with the stuff before

you write a big check. By full, I meam full, with the ability to save files and post gcode.

 

If they won't give you one, tone out the BS excuses and ask youself why.

 

Another alternative would be to buy one seat

with the option to buy 9 more at the "attractive"

price in 90 days. If they won't do that, its cause they want your money before you find out what you've bought.

 

As for the Mastercam maintenance question.

If you let it expire, you will get a little popup

everytime you launch. Its irrtiating, but you click OK and its gone. Your software will continue to function to the last maintenance

release you paid for.

 

You should also have a serious sitdown with your Mastercam dealer. If Mastercam is doing the job for you, its not a software problem, its a money problem.

He may work you a better deal to keep you from going over to the "Dark Side."

 

From my point of view. I love SolidWorks for a design package. At least once a week I'll have to change a design, bring a new solid into Mastercam and rework a bunch of toolpaths.

Every time, I think, "If I was running CamWorks or SolidCam, it wouldn't be this much work"

I've tried them both and I still use Mastercam.

 

There is a reason Mastercam is the #1 Cad/Cam software. You're going to find out why.

I expect that you'll be back, poorer for the knowledge, Keep us up to date. I'd really like to know how OneCNC works out for you.

 

[ 11-13-2005, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Matt

You do not need to re-install anything. The only thing different is that there will be a window that pops up saying your maint has expired at mc start up.

 

Any maint releases that are dated before your maint expires can be run on your keys.

[Steve Biehl - Cimquest Inc]

Matt,

there are ways to set you up with network, floating licensing, allowing M3 to be opened anywhere (as long as the license is available). I'll be out all next week but give me a call after that and I'll see what I can set up for you.

[Matt Berube at Ferron Mold]

Wow, this is turning into quite the hot topic. Lots of good advice and I appreciate it all.

 

G Code, they do have a 30 day no questions money back guarantee. I have not inquired about anything further. As far as the number of seats, we actually don't need 10. That's how they do their network license. You pay for 2 seats and get 10. No network license fees either. I have been told that just to get the network license for MC is very expensive IN ADDITION to paying for however many seats are required...

 

Steve, thanks but first there's the reason above and secondly, I would need to upgrade at least one of the other seats because our current Mill 3 is open almost constantly. Therefore the floating license would be a little helpful perhaps but not really unless we upgrade as well.

 

Thanks again for all the replies !

[gcode]

quote:

---

they do have a 30 day no questions money back guarantee

---

That is not the same as a full trial license.

If the software is as good as they say it is,

they will have no qualms about letting you try it for 30-90 days.

 

If they won't,its not as good as they say it is. They'll give you a bunch of BS about how thieir licensing isn't set up to do that etc etc etc.

 

Camworks charged $100 to send me a full package

with a full 90 license. I thought that was fair.

I played with it for 3 months, ran through the tutorial, tried it on some of my parts and said

"No thank you". The $100 proved I was serious

and the full license proved they believed in their product.

 

Imagine buying a car with no test drive,

"But we have a full 30 money back guarantee"

Would you buy the car??

 

If they won't give you a test drive....

you're going to get bit. Just my 2 cents..

 

Changing Cad/Cam software is a lot like getting a divorce. You're about to trade your faithful

40 year old in on 2 20's

They may look good and they may be a whole lot of fun, but in the end you'll come crawling home

 

[ 11-13-2005, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: gcode ]

[Guest]

quote:

---

You do not need to re-install anything. The only thing different is that there will be a window that pops up saying your maint has expired at mc start up.

 

Any maint releases that are dated before your maint expires can be run on your keys.

---

Sorry about the wrong info above, I was going by what I was told "they" encountered while I was out.

 

mea culpa

[gcode]

Jim,

They were probably temp codes issued during the

"Sim Swap" proccess. Those codes don't "stick"

like regular maintenance codes do.

[DrewG]

Matt, I was in a similar position as you. I was forced to look for a new CAM system after I purchased 4 seats of Mastercam, and than was told Mastercam was "shelving" their MATTS program. I could've used Mastercam for some of my machines, and the new CAM system for the others, however using several CAM systems in a smaller shop can cause problems in and of itself, especially if you have programmers who have to program several different machines.

I was able to try Edgecam for 60 days, GIBBS for 90 days, UG NX3 for 30 days, and Esprit for several month's. I also looked at Partmaker, but did not use it. In order to make an "educated decision", I also paid, in some cases, to be able to go through training, or have "in house" training done, so that I would be able to use the software in the "real world" and see if it was as capable as the salesman made it out to be. Granted, this is time consumming, however I wanted to make sure I didn't end up with another 40K in CAM software sitting on the shelf. I would definitely use the software for a period of time before agreeing and paying for the software. Believe me, after they have your money, just try and get it back. It's almost impossible!!!!

[Bruce Caulley]

:flamesuit on:

 

OneCNC is well worth the money. The developer is a personal aquaintance of mine. If you have any questions email me.

 

:flamesuit off:

 

Don't change just because of maintenance though. If you need to restructure the programming dept to get more people involved directly in programming it may be a good switch as you can get more bang for the buck without the extensive training that MC requires.

 

Talk to your reseller though as changing all jobs over to a new package is a pain. You could of course just run MC without maintenance as if it works for you now with the type of parts you make new features may not be necessary.

 

HTH

 

Bruce

[Rob Quality]

I have checked out both Onecnc and Mastercam and they both are very good programs. The post processor in Onecnc is outstanding. To the best of my knowledge (as limited as it is), there are only a few cad/cam software packages that provide a cad and cam together (not a imported one or where u have to migrate one to the other)

It is always good to look around and see what is about.

 

However as BC10146 mentioned it can be a pain swapping software, but its similar to using different types of cnc machines, they all have the same basic teachings, I'm sure that if you use one now its not a problem to use or learn others.

 

Mastercam also is an excellent drawing package all thou the maintenance can be costly but you get what you pay for.

[Thad]

Mastercam also is an excellent drawing package all thou the maintenance can be costly[/quote}

 

Costly....compared to what?

 

Welcome to the forum, Rob.

 

Thad

[gcode]

Any maintenance is more costly than no maintenance

but compared to most CAD and CAD/CAM software

Mastercam mainteance is cheap.

Solidworks charges 25% of retail per year

You could by a seat of Mastercam for the price of anuual maintenance on Catia UG or ProE.

I'm not a familiar with pricing of Gibbs or some of the other mainstream PC based packages.

[Guest]

Well, what does maintenance get you?

 

quote:

---

What's Coming in MR1

 

Mastercam X MR1 is the first Maintenance release for Mastercam X. It includes both bug fixes and new functionality. This release will go to all customers in the Maintenance program.

 

The anticipated release date is December 16. The functional scope of MR1 includes the release of an additional X product – Mastercam Wire. It also includes Mastercam Router enhancements (Door C-Hook and ATP), 2D Mill multi-pass threading, 3D Mill highspeed toolpaths, surface modeling enhancements, and overall bug fixes.

 

Online help and PDF documentation will be provided for Wire and the new surface toolpaths, so don’t forget to check it out. For more information, please visit

www.mastercam.com

or contact your local Mastercam Reseller.

 

 

---

[Thad]

quote:

---

compared to most CAD and CAD/CAM software

Mastercam mainteance is cheap.

---

Exactly my point.

 

Speaking of cost, I believe it was Henry Ford who said something like "If you need a new machine but don't buy one, ultimately, you've paid for it but you still don't have it."

 

Thad

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

---

V9.1 is done with enhancement, so what you have, is what you have.

---

Don't knock MR0501.......I find it to be top notch....

[DrewG]

I have received quotes for maintenance from Mastercam, Esprit, Gibbs, Edgecam, and UG. They are all similar accept for UG. UG is a bit more, however they offer the best Tech Support that I've seen, and they have a major release EVERY 12 month's period. These are not patch's or upgrades. They use to have two major release's a year, however they listened to their customers who stated that having two major releases a year was too much to learn in such a short timeframe. UG is also the only fully integrated CAD/CAM system of the group. To be able to design, test using FEM or FEA analysis, and produce toolpath using the CAD side of UG is pretty awesome. Make an update to your model and you can update the toolpath at the same time if desired. UG also offers the best 5 axis toolpaths of the group, quite possibly of all CAM systems. The maintenance charges for all the others were very similar. I did not find Mastercam to be "significantly less" than any of the others. I'm not advocating UG, rather just pointing out some of the differences between UG and the other CAM systems. UG is a complete CAD/CAM package whereby all of the others are advertised as CAM software. The difference in both price and maintenance fee's should be different, don't you agree?