Mastercam X4 MU2

[HEED]

I have side X side installs of X4 MU2 and X3 MU1. When I really really need it to be right, I just do it in X3. When I want to play with coolie wow new features, I try it in x4. Multi threading has dramatically reduced calculation times for multi axis toolpaths for me. I also like the trim verify option. That's why I haven't been running X4 until now. Honestly from what I've seen I don't need any of the updates. X3 was cool for some of the advanced multiaxis interface options, but seems that there are bigger bugs that need to be addressed before they go creating new features to have problems with. Especially with the money that they charge for the software and the maintenence packages. That being said... I am VERY appreciative for the work that CNC software does for us. It makes all of our jobs WAY more easy, efficient, and accurate. I love what I've been seeing out of them lately. Especially with the new HLE (that you can save files!!)

[The_Evil_Machinist]

quote:

---

its an improvement, but not as clean as a 2nd maintenance release should be.

---

Come on, give cnc a break. They got this release out fast for us and I'm appreciative. This release is stable for me. I've tried to crash it today. It won't!

 

 

So I say thank you cnc software.

[neurosis]

quote:

---

This release is stable for me. I've tried to crash it today. It won't!

---

I didnt even have to try to crash it and it crashed on me.

 

I need to give it a fair shake however and be a little more cautious about working on files from prior releases. I dont really consider my crash today to be all that bad as it could have been avoided by doing exactly what Colin stated above. I'll wait to judge until I have a real legitimate unavoidable issue.

 

quote:

---

Yep...we all are. I crashed my first toolpath in verify using a X3 facemill I faked at 89.0 degs because Mastercam still after 20 years cannot define a 90 degree high shear facemill with a .02R. I have found a way to fool every version so far...and will find a way to fool X4. Point being...dont hold your breath. The operation manager is a time bomb waiting to explode IMO.

---

Have you tried to define your 90 deg facemills as flat endmills rather than a facemill? Or a bullnose for a facemill with a rad?

 

I dont have much faith in the operations manager due to the issues that ive had with it in the past. We'll see what happens. Im keeping my fingers crossed.

[The_Evil_Machinist]

quote:

---

I didnt even have to try to crash it and it crashed on me.

---

somethings wrong with your box or the cad file.

 

One thing I have noticed is that alot of people toolpath off surfaces instead of solids here. And those are the same people that have the crashes. I program off nothing but solids and have no problems.

 

Also when I say I stress tested it, I REALLY churned and burned. Almost threw my mac cluster into thermal protection. lol.

[neurosis]

quote:

---

somethings wrong with your box or the cad file.

 

One thing I have noticed is that alot of people toolpath off surfaces instead of solids here. And those are the same people that have the crashes. I program off nothing but solids and have no problems.

---

I dont even know what to say about that statement. There must be a problem with several of my cad files and four different pc's that ive used Mastercam on. Im certain that there is no way in hell that it could be the software. Maybe I need to buy a Mac and all of my Mastercam problem will magically go away.

 

Or then again, maybe I would just have a really expensive computer that I have the exact same issues on but I will be less worried about getting a virus.

 

 

In all seriousness, when I pulled that file in to MU2, it changed my Machine Def file locations to My Documents for some reason which caused that crash. I cant tell if it is a bug or not but I will probably test a few more files out in the near future so see if it happens again. There is no reason that it should have changed the file location. The file was originally created in X2MR2MU1 and then heavily changed once in X4 including adding new Machine Def files that I created recently in X4 MU1, none of which had My Documents as a file location. :shrug: I then opened it in X4MU2 and crashola. You woudl think that if it would have been the file "or the box" then it would have crashed in X4MU1? This, up until now, was one of the files that I had not had an issue with.

 

[ 12-02-2009, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Neurosis ]

[[email protected]]

quote:

---

I program off nothing but solids and have no problems.

---

Are you sure about that?? I think I stated that I work with solids and you and rickster and a few more said I should use surfaces.

[Verndog]

You may want to give more then 2 days of use before declaring a release stable. Yes, issues were fixed, but others can and WILL crop up. As far as benifits from X4 goes, I personlly have lost more time in the day from not being able to have more then 1 instance of Mastercam open then I'll ever gain in multi threading toolpaths. In X3 you could "multi thread" with a second instance of MC running...plus merge GEO / toolpath / ops or whatever without closing each file. Someone has a question on a part...just open another instance and answer, then pick where you left off when your done.

 

If I added up all the time I spend in cad cam, waiting for toolpath generation is less then 5%. Half the time you need to see what was just generated anyway to make the next path efficient...especially during roughing operations.

 

As far as appreciating the fast release, I would far rather to wait another week or 2 then deal with a slow or bloated system for the next 6 months. 6-7 months is the average time between releases since X2....X4 has had 3 releases in 6 months. You still glad they hurried?

 

quote:

---

Have you tried to define your 90 deg facemills as flat endmills rather than a facemill? Or a bullnose for a facemill with a rad?

---

Yes, that is 1 work around. But in large tool lists I like to see a facemill in the op as it is quicker to find in tool manager, wont mislead others...ect. I know how to fool it. In version X3 X2...ect tell it 89.9 degs. 2.000 tip dia. 2.005 upper dia. and whatever radius and all is good. That Crashes X4MU2 in verify (even though tool backplots and shows correctly). I did get it to verify by changing angle from 89.9 to just 89.0

 

[ 12-02-2009, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Verndog ]

[The_Evil_Machinist]

quote:

---

I think I stated that I work with solids and you and rickster and a few more said I should use surfaces.

---

rick said that. I said I work with solids.

 

http://www.emastercam.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...=1;t=035634;p=1

[[email protected]]

Okay, my bad. I still had problems and you and I were the only ones using solids.

 

The new mu2 has been crash free so far (Still use solids and always will)

The only prob I've had is, it will freeze in verify. It dont crash, just locks up and I have to do the 'ol 3 fingered salute to end program.

I got in the habit a month or so ago to ALWAYS save before I hit the verify button.

[Thee Rickster ™]

Until moldplus get up to speed...I will have

no complaints for MU2.

 

In fact I cannot get Mu1 to crash now

The LAg is horendous...rebooting is common practise

with MC just for lag now 3 or 4 times a day

[Verndog]

For those that swear by solids please do this test. Save a complex solid Mastercam file in solid only. Then, create surface from solid, get a complete surface model of the part, and delete the solid. Save this file. Now go look at the properties of those 2 files (ie file size), exact same GEO only solid vs surface. It may just change your mind, and tell you why your machine is choking. Surface machining is faster / more versitile, and much more stable IMO...and good luck driving 5 axis swarf or curve toolpath on a solid in any hard metal parts.

[HEED]

Ahhh... The forums. I love how a topic gets started about MU2 and ends up being a debate about programming strategies.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Verndog,

 

I'd also like you to add something to your test: try running the "NoHist" chook to remove the solid's internal history, as a test. It would be helpful to have someone test toolpaths both before the "NoHist" and after.

 

I'm with you on surfacing too. 90% of my toolpaths are driven on surfaces and wireframe, but I use solids for a lot of my CAD work. Now I derive all that geometry from the solid, but the toolpaths themselves are tied to the surface/wireframe geometry.

 

One of the things that continually screws people up is the fact that the machining operations are tied to the solid in the history tree. It is also really annoying that you can't change a solid in any way without making your toolpaths that reference that solid go dirty.

[The_Evil_Machinist]

quote:

---

Save a complex solid Mastercam file in solid only. Then, create surface from solid, get a complete surface model of the part, and delete the solid. Save this file. Now go look at the properties of those 2 files (ie file size), exact same GEO only solid vs surface.

---

Have you read my cluster computer's spec's in my siggy? I've had huge solid models that I toolpath off of and it doesnt hinder my performance. I'm not against converting to surfaces or using a dumb solid to free up resources. It's just mu2 handles toolathing complex solids just fine. All you need is the comp to handle it which kinda goes hand in hand with cad/cam.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

quote:

---

All you need is the comp to handle it which kinda goes hand in hand with cad/cam

---

While I can't argue with this statement, you weren't doing CAD/CAM 8 years ago (on the computers of 8 years ago) and the software I used at the time managed it's limited resources in much better ways than what some here are seeing.

[Verndog]

quote:

---

Verndog,

I'd also like you to add something to your test: try running the "NoHist" chook to remove the solid's internal history, as a test. It would be helpful to have someone test toolpaths both before the "NoHist" and after.

---

Although that will help "some" you will still be surprised. I've been acomplishing the same with parasolid out, then back in to strip history and stabilize solid for years. The 2 files in comparison will be DOUBLE the size for solid even stripped, and up to 3X+ the size for a full associated solid. I'll try that Chook, but cant imagine it can get any more stripped then a parasolid or step import.

 

Dont get me wrong, I like solids especially for modeling tooling, complex parts, solid layout for drafting, and step and material file exports, but sometimes you need to find the best in the system and roll with it....and there is reason file size is over double in solid.

 

Yes...a super computer is one answer, but convincing employers of that times xxx number of systems is another story..and its not 100% necessary.

 

Also...anyone attempt to mirror that solid for an OPP part and have it blow up yet (complex models)? Once you get into a nasty 150hr + part and figure the OPP is downhill...you just may change your mind.

[[email protected]]

quote:

---

why your machine is choking

---

I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here (like evil does j/k) but my puter wont choke on a big file because of the size (it's been proven in earlier versions) it's because of the bugs in X4 (that seem to be fixed now)

I will continue to use solids (just my preference) because size dont matter on my puter.

One of these days evil might catch me in the benchmark

[The_Evil_Machinist]

quote:

---

I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here (like evil does

---

Hey, I'm humble! I'm the best damn humble person on the face of the earth!

 

quote:

---

One of these days evil might catch me in the benchmark

---

All I need is one more node...

[cunder]

Can some tell Me more about this holder management utility?

[peon]

Cunder, check out this link.

http://www.emastercam.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...t=033440#000016

[Mjölnir]

quote:

---

One thing I have noticed is that alot of people toolpath off surfaces instead of solids here. And those are the same people that have the crashes. I program off nothing but solids and have no problems.

---

I either import to or create solids in Mastercam but machine from wireframes and surfaces exclusively. I'm using X4 MU2 and have yet to encounter any problems outside of the normal bugs which have been lurking around for numerous versions for which there are work arounds.

 

It's hard for me to come up with a reason to complain about X4, X4 MU1, and especially X4 MU2 since the trim preview for noobs and retards is finally gone. And that's quite the bummer too, I LOVE posting inflammatory rants.

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

quote:

---

noobs and retards is finally gone.

---

I'm neither one of these, and I quite like the trim preview, thank you very much

[MIL-TFP-41]

quote:

---

especially X4 MU2 since the trim preview for noobs and retards is finally gone.

---

I find it ironic that the ability to disable an "enhancement" from a previous release is considered an "enhancement".

[Bob W.]

Seems to me that if CNC really was customer oriented they would let us know what exactly was fixed instead of being so secretive about it.

 

When you go to a company's web site and they have comprehensive bug fix lists posted with software updates about every 2-4 weeks, what is your impression of that company? It tells me that they cater to their customers and if I use their software and run into issues, I can count on them being addressed in a timely manner. It makes me feel that my concerns will be heard.

 

With CNC, if I run into issues I get automated responses telling me to update my video driver. I get updates every few months with the list of fixed issues supressed on purpose. That means I need to keep tiptoeing around features that were broken in the past because I don't know if it has been fixed yet. Yeah, CNC REALLY cares about their customers.

[Bob W.]

I have run across bugs that could crash my machine. It would be nice to know if those are fixed. One in particular is when I transformed a group of operations to a new coordinate system (G55) and the posted code fed the cutter to CUTTING DEPTH before heading to the feed down position in G55. CNC has all of these files, but no word... It would be nice to know if it was fixed...