WCS Discussion

[Guest]

Dave, I don't want to get Kingsberrys question OT

 

quote:

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I understand it too. What I understand most is how lame it is

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In what way.

 

I find it quite powerful and very adaptive.

 

I would still like to see some added functionality for snapping to surfaces and such but the new Dynamic has been a BIG improvement if you ask me.

 

So what's lacking in you opinion?

[Dave.L]

John,

 

This has been discussed in other threads. Any, hey, maybe this is a topic that I need to learn more about so I would be happy to absorb your thoughts.

 

My issues are with the links of views to WCS. What I mean is, if I try to rotate the WCS, MC creates a new view. I don't want and don't need a new view, I just want to manipulte the one I have. I also don't want to use the standard views so I create my own and MC seems to have issues with this.

 

I often hear users say they create geometry, I think Tom (g-code) does this. My part has geometry so why in the world should I need to create it?

 

I have not tried Dynamic WCS yet, but I will.

 

PS, this is also probably a topic better discussed thru a media other than text / email.

[gaijin_2007]

IMHO, the way MC deals with WCS/Views/Planes is a throw-back to it's days as a purely 2D software.

And makes me believe that that's what it still is at its core.

If you're working in a true 3D environment and have a WCS determining the orientation of your workpiece why do you need a View or a Plane too?

[Joe788]

quote:

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the orientation of your workpiece why do you need a View or a Plane too?

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Multiaxis.

 

The software needs to know when YOU are moving the part, or when you want the MACHINE to move the part.

 

WCS works very well once you understand exactly what it wants.

 

For a horizontal, or a 5 axis machine, it's simple.

 

Change the WCS if you're removing the part and putting it in a different fixture.

 

Change the Tplane and leave the WCS the same if you want the machine to generate rotary moves to that plane.

[Chris Parish]

Dave:

 

Using X4 Mu3 with the Dynamic planes is just so much easier... I have this discussion several users (of other software).. and they have liked what we have to offer.

[Dave.L]

I use WCS every day and yes it works, I just don't like some of the extra steps.

 

Take a look at this: (maybe similar to dynamic WCS).

 

For me, I don't like the view/wcs relation how MC handles it.

 

ftp://tawe.delcam.com/pub/videos/powermil...mprovements.wmv

[Guest]

quote:

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MC creates a new view. I don't want and don't need a new view, I just want to manipulte the one I have. I also don't want to use the standard views so I create my own and MC seems to have issues with this.

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Yes it does create a new view when ever you create a new WCS and/or plane. I just choose to ignore them. They don't hurt me by being there. I don't use GVIEW, never have and likely never will.

 

When you're 3 axis machining I have never had any issue with WCS.

 

Now, if you're Multi-axis machining and you call me for help I am going to tell you to move your part to to the system origin. Remember, you're calling or asking for help, this will help you get your job done. Mastercam certainly has issues with Multi-axis path and not rotating around a "system" axis.

 

Now, if you want to fight that, you're going to have frustrations no doubt. The resellers and end users don't write the stuff but we can help you accomplish your task.

 

That's the big thing around here many seemed to have forgotten. This isn't a bitch forum, it's a help forum.

 

So if you have specific things you're trying to accomplish perhaps we can help you get those tasks done but we're not going to rewrite the software but will help you to get the job done.

[Chris Parish]

welcome to "dynamic planes" in Mastercam X4 Mu3

[vince cannarozzo]

well said john.

[Dave.L]

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That's the big thing around here many seemed to have forgotten. This isn't a bitch forum, it's a help forum.

 

So if you have specific things you're trying to accomplish perhaps we can help you get those tasks done but we're not going to rewrite the software but will help you to get the job done.

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Well John, I can appreciate that. I do feel however that many users feel that this forum may also be a place to pass feedback to CNC software, and I feel that's valid. I will say, in the spirit of passion, people may not always be the most tactful.

 

Personally, I would rather my customers tell me they have issues compared to being silent and simply going elsewhere.

[Randy Morton @ Clem Industrial]

I shared the same frusterations as Dave when I first started creating WCS planes, but over time, some experimentation, a little help from here, and now I *nearly* have it down to a science. Does it sometimes do some werid thing (ie, create extra planes I dont need), yes. Does what I am trying to accomplish work very well? Nearly flawlessly.

 

I use this for my Mazak Integrex. I need to drill/mill holes or features that are not always at 0 degrees (horizontal). I do lots of work, sadly none 5 axis, at 30, 45, 90, 135 & 180. And lots in between. This means I have to create new planes to tell my milling head which orientation it has to be in, or I will never get it to move. Let alone backplot or verify correctly.

 

Is the system perfect? No. Does it work well, imo, yes.

 

Questions about it? Just ask. Speaking for myself, I am more then happy to help when possible and even create some examples if needed.

[Rob Dusenbury CAD/CAM CONSULTING]

John, From one reseller to another.

 

 

That was AWESOME!

[gaijin_2007]

@Joe788,

 

I get what you mean but I still think it's unnecessary.

When I used PowerMILL I had the choice of outputting NC code relative to either the WCS I used to create the toolpath (I'm moving the part) or to a different WCS of my choosing (PowerMILL outputs the angular rotation and the machine moves the part).

Lots simpler IMO and Views/Planes don't come into it.

[spade117]

I like wcs more and more as the newer versions of m-cam are released.

 

I've leraned alot about it thru this forum and I'm sure Chris and Vince have helped me along the way too...and a little practice always helps.

[Guest]

quote:

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Well John, I can appreciate that. I do feel however that many users feel that this forum may also be a place to pass feedback to CNC software, and I feel that's valid. I will say, in the spirit of passion, people may not always be the most tactful.

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Dave, I know what you mean, hell, I have railed several times on it.

 

I'll bet Jay/Cadcam remembers when I went nuts becasue I was fighting verify and a VERY expensive part, I was cuckoo and PO'd

 

I am speaking more of the constant bash, hell we've had people with 3 posts, come in railing about how bad it is, they've not had a single moment training or anything, all of sudden someone tells them how and they slink off into the woodwork.

 

We all get frustrated, even where I sit now, there are moments still, I think we can all understand that.

[Dave.L]

John,

 

My frustration comes directly from the lack of response from the manufacture. I am very understanding when someone shows they actually care and are willing to make things better.

 

But this secret "customer does not need to know" policy puts me thru the roof.

 

I may not always agree with your replies, but I will respect you forever for the reply.

 

Know what I mean?

[Randy Morton @ Clem Industrial]

Isnt that 'customer does not need to know' policy about everything? And in every company? Hell, they dont even tell us the supervisor is leaving until the day before his party..... O_o lol

[Joe788]

quote:

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I get what you mean but I still think it's unnecessary.

When I used PowerMILL I had the choice of outputting NC code relative to either the WCS I used to create the toolpath (I'm moving the part) or to a different WCS of my choosing (PowerMILL outputs the angular rotation and the machine moves the part).

Lots simpler IMO and Views/Planes don't come into it.

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Gaijin, it works the same way in Mastercam, unless I'm not following you?

[Guest]

I get you Dave.

 

Just try to remember that all they guys, myself, gcode, James, Ron, Resellers and so many others I can't possibly name them all, they'll help, nearly anytime of the day or night.

 

We don't write the code, we all point out the issues and things we'd like to see but at the end of the day we all have jobs to do and helping people get their jobs done is the main reason many of us are here.

 

[crazy^millman]

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We don't write the code, we all point out the issues and things we'd like to see but at the end of the day we all have jobs to do and helping people get their jobs done is the main reason many of us are here.

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Ditto!!!!

[Dave.L]

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Just try to remember that all they guys, myself, gcode, James, Ron, Resellers and so many others I can't possibly name them all, they'll help, nearly anytime of the day or night.

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I am certainly appreciative of that.

 

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We don't write the code

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I can't speak for others, but I am well aware of that and any disatisfation I have is not directed to anyone other than the creator of the product.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

"I often hear users say they create geometry, I think Tom (g-code) does this. My part has geometry so why in the world should I need to create it?"

 

I not sure what your asking here but I'll give it a shot.

 

It's just another tool in the shed, and a good one at that. Honestly, I'd say at least 75% of the guys I work with can't rotate a feature from the front or right side, in a CAD/CAM package or on paper. I ran horizontals for 11 years and most of the guys there never understood working off C/L of rot. The day will come (should have already) where you'll need to draw something on a funky plane, whether it's for machining or analytical purposes. Drawing in the top then rotating multiple entities from the different planes gets old fast. Establishing the plane then drawing everything you need at once will go much smoother. Getting this down helps tremendously with visualization skills. I found that once I started using SW, I was able to apply some MC concepts there. Now its the other way around, and SW is helping me to understand MC much better.

HTH.

[Dave.L]

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I not sure what your asking here

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Yes, you are correct but thanks for the reply.

 

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Now its the other way around, and SW is helping me to understand MC much better.

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MC can't compare to SW with this, SW is WAY better.

[MotorCityMinion]

"SW is WAY better."

 

Sure is. I'd say 90% of what I need to draw, if I need surfaces, now gets done in SW 1st. Much less grief. Simple sweeps and fillets, I'll do them in MC to save a few steps.

[YoDoug®]

I would like to see a parent/child tree style manager for Keeping track of wcs/t/c/planes. Sort of like NX mcs. I would like to see a user prompt to select t/c planes when you select any toolpath/geometry that is not parallel to the current t/plane.