new machine coming

[Robert Ouellette]

I finally got the boss to get me a new machine. we are getting a HAAS VM-6 with the tr-210 trunnion. i managed to get it fully loaded too. every option i could. now i need to start working on a post for it and learn 5ax programing. i think the easy part was getting the boss to buy everything. the 5ax is starting to make me nervous. What would be the best post to start with? and are there any major mods i will have to do? i have done some minor 3ax post mods before but never even been near a 5ax post. am i in over my head? Should i just get the boss to pony up some more of my x-mas bonus to get a post from in-house? i know lots of you on here have help lots of others make the needed mods and im sure i can do them if i know what i need to do. im not asking for a post im asking for help from the best guys in the business. thanks for your time hope you can help me

[Colin Gilchrist]

If you have only done 3X Post and machining, you are in over your head regarding a 5 axis post. I'd recommend contacting In-House for the Post. That will be your quickest route to get working code.

 

You'll also want to consider some training, or at the very least a good book.

 

The book by Karlo Apro does an excellent job of explaining 5 axis machining concepts, in a fairly "software neutral" way.

[gcode]

Starting with X3, CNC Software includes a Haas

trunion post in the default install.

I've never run a Haas trunion, but people who do have told me is a good dialed in post

C:McamX4cnc_machinesGENERIC HAAS VF-TR_SERIES 5X MILL.MMD

[Bob W.]

I would highly recommend an NC verification package as well such as Predator Software or Vericut. Many things can go wrong with 5-axis machining and the NC verification helps a ton. I will not run a part on the machine of it hasn't been verified first unless it is dead simple.

[Trevor Bailey]

the 5ax haas post that gets installed with the software is pretty dialed in. a couple of my customers use it.

[Joels]

I used a post from inhouse for a Mazak 300S mill/turn and it was perfect.

[Robert Ouellette]

Thanks for the replies. i will be getting training from in house on the 5ax. i will need it. its 4 days. i will give the included post a try. the boss will be happy about that. it will save some coin too. as for the verification software, that will be a no go i know it for sure. he is from the old school and to him software is just a money grab. he will have me do my best in mastercam and then stand at the machine to make sure it will not crash. i know it sounds stupid but i am in the same boat as many on here: spend to get it going then stop spending to get it perfect and fool proof. he has a hard time buying me name brand quality tooling. i have to prove to him it will run x% faster then the cheap stuff and will last x% longer too. you know the deal. its the same in most small shop i think. im counting myself lucking im getting the mill with 5ax, mastercam x4 lvl3 with multiax and solids, and all the holders i "think" i needed.

 

does anyone have a sample 5ax part, something simpler, that has toolpaths on it, that i could have as an example? to start learning from. maybe some sample code for a haas 5ax too. if some one has something i would love start learning as soon as possible so i could get the machine dancing relatively soon after it is installed

 

thanks all

[Rstewart]

Good luck on your new machine coming!! I'm also just 3 axis based and basically clueless on 5 axis programming.

 

Just from what I've seen and read, I personally would be scared to death to crash a New machine because of no Verification software.

 

Just let the boss know that "Its Not on you" if the code doesn't compare to verify in MC.

[robk]

Congratulations on the new machine. That being said I also agree with the other comments on verification software. I will not have an operator even drill a hole unless I run the code through Vericut. Not only is it part of our procedure, but it also makes me sleep better @ nights. For the most part 5 axis machines are a lot more fragile compared to a solid 3 axis mill. Last thing I would want would be for one of our machines sit idle waiting for repair because of a crash that could have been prevented in the 1st place.

[CJep]

+1 on the suggestion for Verification software.

 

There is quite bit that can be done in Mcam with a combination of backplot, verify and dead reckoning visualization, it still can't beat something like Vericut, Camplete,...

 

The next best thing would be the "poor man's" verification, get your self some "cheap material" and run that to prove out the program before doing the money shot.

[Chris Rizzo]

Without true verification your saving grace is a 5x haas is way cheaper to fix and/or replace than an 5x Japanese machine following an inevitable crash.

 

Your next best option is to spend some serious time figuring out mastercam's built in machine simulation. It's not true code verification, but it is much, much better than verify and backplot. In x5 it is quite improved as well.

[[email protected]]

quote:

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In x5 it is quite improved as well.

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sssshhhhhhhhh you're not supposed to tell

[Brad Lisle]

[[email protected]]

^^^^^^

[Chris Rizzo]

ahh come on, I'm throwin' ya'll a bone

[Robert Ouellette]

thanks guys for all the help. i would not want to run 5ax either with out verification but my boss will never go for it. i don't think we will be doing alot of it either. most of the time i think the trunnion will be on the pallet in the corner. we are trying to expand our business to include 5ax. right now we have no need for it. but we do have the need for a much larger machine then what we have and the 5ax add on was not very expensive and it was our year end purchase and so the boss got it. i really hope we get work for it as i would love to learn it and get good at it.

[gcode]

Having a 5X trunion should cause you to review

your whole stable of work,

Many parts you now build in mutliple setups

can now be done in less.

[Tyler Robertson]

Robert - when you coming down?

 

If you're coming to the cambridge office for training that's where I'm at. That HAAS is pretty standard I think so maybe I can point you in the right direction when it comes to machine sim.

 

I'm just the robot guy though :S

[Rob @ Target Machine]

˄˄˄˄˄˄˄˄

No cat no bag. Machsim was available for X4.

 

.

On another note, you gotta be nuts running a 5ax machine without nc verification. There are multiple solutions to rotary moves that are handled in the post that won't show in verify and the weird stuff that happens when you get too close to a 0,0,1 vector or the center of rotation.

 

IMHO - Vericut would pay for itself by saving just one crash. The downtime, part, and repairs would justify the cost of one seat.

 

Look at Vericut limited for one machine if money's that tight. You can always upgrade later.

[shazam/TPP]

quote:

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Machsim was available for X4.

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where?

[CJep]

quote:

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Machsim was available for X4.

 

where?

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It's a free add-in that you would get from your reseller

[Tyler Robertson]

The Cat bag was some advancements

[88Matt]

The machine sim add-on for X4 is really good, especially for free. I would get to know it well. My guess is they will help you get started if you are taking the 5 axis training.

[MattW]

quote:

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i would not want to run 5ax either with out verification but my boss will never go for it

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"If you need a piece of equipment and do not buy it, you will eventually pay for it and still not have it"

 

I saw this quote attributed to Henry Ford. You should post this on your computer and on your new machine.

[Alvaro Gil - Cimquest-inc.com]

Machine sim is really awesome. In House will hook it up to a post for you for near NC verification. It will simulate what its posting and not what it might post.

 

Not NC code simulation, but for the price its insane. It does not get the hype it deserves, and has been around since X2.