Old bugs back again. Thanks alot CNC!

[gcode]

I literally timed a launch at over 2 minutes using a standard 7200 rpm sata drive, on a quad core machine in a 64bit OS, I thought the machine had crashed. WTF is that about? Is this the norm?

 

I've never timed it, but that sounds about right

[Bob W.]

Not trying to be a pessimist here but be care full what you wish for. Old bugs, new bugs, whatever the case may be, it's hard to beat the over all functionality of MC in a 2d realm. And to be quite honest, I don't have very many issues with the old school tool paths in 3D work either.

 

You know, if Mastercam were to get all of the features reliably working the way they should it would be a no brainer for me. I use the 2D HST toolpaths very often and they are lights out fantastic. I have played with opti-rough and it produces good toolpaths when it works but I usually stick with Volumill because it is just plain bulletproof. Historically the 3D HST rest roughing toolpaths have been a joke and they never really tried to make it work well without cutting 40% AIR. Most of the work I do involves pieces with large volumes to be removed but a lot of tiny details that need to be machined as well, so rest roughing efficiency is critical. It was so bad that I went and bought Volumill. The rest of the 3D HST work most of the time but they are far from bulletproof and far from efficient. The 3D HST hybrid toolpath produces great results when it works but that is about 80% of the time. The rest of the time I get an error to the effect 'unable to find valid machining zone' and it adds up to a LOT of wasted time playing with settings to get it to produce. Overall the 2D toolpaths are far more reliable than the 3D HST.

 

Other time wasters are that it handles geometry the same as early 90s AutoCAD and it isn't parametric. My employee is taking Mastercam programming courses at the local CC and it made me laugh, then angry, when I saw how he has to create geometry in Mastercam for his homework assignments. It is a joke that a CAD/CAM package would work that way in 2012. I KNOW Mastercam is more CAM than CAD but the other packages are working on this and they will eat them for lunch in the next decade if they aren't careful.

 

The thing that REALLY gets me is instead of fixing bugs and issues, then continuing on with innovation, they allocate maybe 10% of their programmers to them. The major effort is move on and try to develop new technology before really perfecting what they already have. If their goal is to make their customers more productive (which translates to much happier) the low hanging fruit is right in front of their faces and it is called reliability. Great companies have been built this way.

 

Lastly, if CNC Software is worried about Mastercam bug lists being used as marketing material by its competitors, how about some of these threads. They must be a damn gold mine if you ask me.

[Cannon]

Cimco

 

Just look how Cimco cares for their customers, already two bug fix updates for their HSM toolpaths for X6 and they also say what has been fixed. Thats what I call customer service.

This is what CNC should do with Mastercam, starting right now!

[gcode]

Lastly, if CNC Software is worried about Mastercam bug lists being used as marketing material by its competitors

 

That may have made some sense, pre-internet but those days are long gone.

I suspect we'll see a change in that policy before too long..

[Watcher]

Cimco

 

Just look how Cimco cares for their customers, already two bug fix updates for their HSM toolpaths for X6 and they also say what has been fixed. Thats what I call customer service.

This is what CNC should do with Mastercam, starting right now!

 

We have seats of MDC, NC-Base, DNC-Max,CNC-Calc... Every year we buy more because the products are EXCELLENT and the support, ohhh... It's even better...

 

I put my money on those guys without a blink anytime anyplace...

[MotorCityMinion]

"how about some of these threads. They must be a damn gold mine if you ask me."

 

No doubt about that. IMO, it's not only the negative publicity as a sales tool that's a bonus. The smart competition is actually gathering data / feedback from the MC community on what works, what doesn't, and what the needs are of the masses are that dwell in this realm. More or less public beta testing in general.

 

OT. I don't understand how the development of MC4SW can not actually destroy the user base of stand alone MC in the coming years. Take the recent addition of the old school tool paths, the upcoming Multi axis stuff, a splash of  Volumill or Cimco, and throw in some of the other plug ins from the various manufacturing disciplines and you have a very powerful and customizable environment that's very flexible. If you find that one app (plug in) doesn't fit your needs, you dump it and get another with out sacrificing your total investment. What I'd really like to see is the full blown incorporation of Xform functionality in the MC4SW package for both sketching and moving things around as the native SW tools used for theses functions can be awkward or difficult to use. That's the primary reason I still do solid modeling in MC. If a model does not require fancy surfaces, variable rads or tricky lofts, I can get the results I want much quicker in MC. Enough babbling for now. 

 

And yes, the HSMWorks (Cimco product) forum is very open about bugs and getting users the answers they need very quickly on various topics. They need to work on some tutorials though. Even the HSM Performance pack tutorials were kind of crappy. They show you what to do, but do not go into depth on the specific options with in a tool path. Ya, I know, they are not the only one's guilty of this.

 

 

[Jroc85]

Cimco

 

Just look how Cimco cares for their customers, already two bug fix updates for their HSM toolpaths for X6 and they also say what has been fixed. Thats what I call customer service.

This is what CNC should do with Mastercam, starting right now!

That's awesome. Didn't even know about that.

[MIL-TFP-41]

That may have made some sense, pre-internet but those days are long gone.

I suspect we'll see a change in that policy before too long..

Long gone is the understatement of the century. CNC software is just as far behind of the times on this issue as they are on lathe. Any time I want to find bugs in Mastercam, all I have to do is log in to this forum & check out the first 5 threads. 99% of the time its a bug that many people (including yourself) has a workaround for. Over my many years of reading this forum I have grown to respect you as a programmer....tho you choose to not be a critic of Mastercam for whatever reason. Workarounds are NOT a fix. Workarounds are wasted time getting a feature to work like it should, nothing more.

 

You also list yourself as a beta-tester.....and you say that you work 70+ hours a week at your "day job"....some of which time must be devoted to turning in numerous bug reports. How does your employer feel about you spending your time doing these trivial tasks rather than making bulletproof programs that wind up on the floor? The beta program as it stands, is a complete joke (and this is coming from someone who was a "referral reseller" for the last 6 years) You should be getting the software for free with the amount of effort you put into it.

 

Then CNC Software makes the decision to totally break ties with Volumill (who has a great engine, is well supported AND fixes bugs on the fly) because they feel that it is confusing to the customer to have a addon that basically does the same thing as their newer paths(optirough, rest, ect). I suppose it is confusing to stay with a company that does not admit they have bugs rather than go with one that actually fixes their problems on the fly. Now lets add to this that CIMCO has a far superior offering (the debate is out...who is better...Cimco of Volumill) to Mastercam's newer paths yet CNC Software chooses to keep them on the board. 2 differnt companies offering different solutions to what Mastercam should do well on its own....yet CNC Software chooses to kick one out. Me thinks it might have something to do with Volumill paying "Smurfware" for their truemill thingie....and CNC Software suing Surfware for them threatening to sue CNC. Whatever the situation...the end user is the one that pays.

 

I used to say that X3 was the Windows ME of Mastercam. X6 is far and above that title....maybe its more like X6 is beatmax vs vhs

[GoetzInd]

Well said JMC. And +1 on being a beta tester. With so many issues, where is the motivation to be one? Not even a discount on the software? I would say it would be helping make a more reliable software, but it doesn't seem that CNC is willing to put in the time to fix glaring problem.

 

Mike

[Joe788]

The $1500 additional monthly payment of the Makino

 

Holy moly Bob, how much did you pay for that VM3? The payments I make on a $330,000 machine are over 6 grand a month. Even a pimped out VM3 on 24's with lambo doors shouldn't more than $3000/month?

[Bob W.]

Holy moly Bob, how much did you pay for that VM3? The payments I make on a $330,000 machine are over 6 grand a month. Even a pimped out VM3 on 24's with lambo doors shouldn't more than $3000/month?

 

VM3 was $105k with ALL options including 41 tools, 4th and 5th axis wiring, etc... I just got really good financing on the Makino. $3600/ month :-)

[Joe788]

VM3 was $105k with ALL options including 41 tools, 4th and 5th axis wiring, etc... I just got really good financing on the Makino. $3600/ month :-)

 

That really good financing musta included a really big down payment or a really long term.

[Bob W.]

That really good financing musta included a really big down payment or a really long term.

 

No down payment, 10 yr term. I do plan to pay it off early but it is nice to have it on my terms as cash flow permits. I was planning on putting 15% down but they came back with those terms and I took it. It worked out well because the tooling and fixturing costs chewed through the down payment savings REALLY fast!

[MotorCityMinion]

"2 differnt companies offering different solutions to what Mastercam should do well on its own....yet CNC Software chooses to kick one out. Me thinks it might have something to do with Volumill paying "Smurfware" for their truemill thingie....and CNC Software suing Surfware for them threatening to sue CNC. Whatever the situation...the end user is the one that pays."

 

A little insight.

 

http://www.freesteel...ptive-clearing/

 

Warning! Do not visit the following within the first hour of eating or while intoxicated.

 

http://camzone.org/2...-longer-boring/

[MIL-TFP-41]

 

Warning! Do not visit the following within the first hour of eating or while intoxicated.

 

http://camzone.org/2...-longer-boring/

The second li nk expands on my thoughts more so than the first. Because Volumill pays Surfware royalities and CNC Software has or had a pending lawsuit against Surfware they drop Volumill. (pure speculation on my part) I do find it rather curious that they do not decided to drop support of Cimco's offering....even more curious is that CNC dropped Volumill saying "it creates confusion with our customers" having a package running inside of mastercam that supposedly duplicates its native functions. Well......Cimco's offering has been out since V9....and its "Adaptive Clearing" path most defiantly mirrors Mastercam's "dynamic" paths. (Tho..to be fair....users most familiar with mastercam will be MUCH more comfortable with mastercams style....the Cimco plugin, while excellent, has a dialog of its own) That being said, they both produce the similar results much like Volumills did.

[gcode]

You also list yourself as a beta-tester.....and you say that you work 70+ hours a week at your "day job"....some of which time must be devoted to turning in numerous bug reports. How does your employer feel about you spending your time doing these trivial tasks rather than making bulletproof programs that wind up on the floor?

 

 

 

I could show you my pay stubs and contract billing .. but whats the point.. ?

If you don't believe me ._ shrug_

I've been a beta tester for over a decade and am careful not to take on more than a beta release can chew.

I've had very few problems with X6, but I'm not doing bleeding edge 5X work and huge rest rough files either.

A few months ago I did a big file that had me nervous so I ran it through Vericut.. Vericut liked it

the machine liked it and Inspection bought it off.. end of story

For what I've been doing, X6 runs very well... if I had been seeing the problems Neurosis and Bob are

reporting I'd have sent it in.

I think I've filed one report in the last 6 weeks... cause I've only had one repeatable problem in the last 6 weeks

 

I will agree with you though.. the beta program failed badly this time around.

Way too much stuff got past the beta testers and CNC this beta cycle.

[neurosis]

 

I will agree with you though.. the beta program failed badly this time around.

Way too much stuff got past the beta testers and CNC this beta cycle.

 

 

Gcode,

 

I sure hope that you or anyone else on the beta testing team do not at all feel responsible for any of this getting by. Its a thankless job that you do for very little reward and it is not your responsibility to make sure that CNC releases a solid product. I have turned my reseller down three times now to be on the beta testing team because I dont feel that it is my responsibility dedicate my free time to find their mistakes. You guys are much better people than I am and I respect you guys for what you do. And that includes some of the people that I dont always agree with that probably think that I dont.

 

 

Then CNC Software makes the decision to totally break ties with Volumill (who has a great engine, is well supported AND fixes bugs on the fly) because they feel that it is confusing to the customer to have a addon that basically does the same thing as their newer paths(optirough, rest, ect). I suppose it is confusing to stay with a company that does not admit they have bugs rather than go with one that actually fixes their problems on the fly. Now lets add to this that CIMCO has a far superior offering (the debate is out...who is better...Cimco of Volumill) to Mastercam's newer paths yet CNC Software chooses to keep them on the board. 2 differnt companies offering different solutions to what Mastercam should do well on its own....yet CNC Software chooses to kick one out. Me thinks it might have something to do with Volumill paying "Smurfware" for their truemill thingie....and CNC Software suing Surfware for them threatening to sue CNC. Whatever the situation...the end user is the one that pays.

 

 

 

When they pulled that excuse out of their xxxx it made me cringe. It doesnt take a genius to realize what a bunch of bull xxxx that was. Otherwise they would have dropped adaptive clearing as well. There has to be more to the story then they let on but we will probably never know will we.

[gcode]

I have turned my reseller down three times now to be on the beta testing team

 

LOL ... that's how dealers handle customers who call alot..make them a beta site and hope the betat release solved your problem ... so you'll leave them alone...

 

 

that's how I became a beta site... driving then nuts over V8 lathe

[neurosis]

LOL ... that's how dealers handle customers who call alot..make them a beta site and hope the betat release solved your problem ... so you'll leave them alone...

 

 

that's how I became a beta site... driving then nuts over V8 lathe

 

Actually, they tried to get me on the team so that I would HAVE to call THEM rather than bringing up my issues publicly. The end result would be the same. They want to shut me up.

 

They know that I use the software in a way that most of their customers do not and they realize that causes me to find issues that other people never even know exist.

 

If they would offer us a discount on our maintenance or some free training I might have taken them up on that offer.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Just because somebody does not rant on CNC everytime they are near a keyboard does not mean they don't expose issues, report them, or say thing that would have the Anti-CNC crowd nodding in agreement . You outsiders have no clue what is said in the Beta Forum or amongst Beta Members, or between Forum Members and [email protected] . So before you accuse someone of not being openly critical of CNC, you should get your facts straight or find somewhere else to air your dirty laundry. There's PLENTY of other forums. Try this one, Mastercam Forum, CNC Zone's Mastercam Forum, or Practical Machinist's CAD/CAM Forum to name a few.

[Bruce Caulley]

That's the primary reason I still do solid modeling in MC. If a model does not require fancy surfaces, variable rads or tricky lofts, I can get the results I want much quicker in MC.

 

 

Really??

 

Bruce

[MotorCityMinion]

Yes really. No plane creation and all geo created in 3d space on one level is much faster for me. No exporting or importing required either. The key here is SIMPLE MODELS. I do like SW but for sheer speed there is no reason to bop back and forth between 2 apps to create a simple model that does not need to be shared. I still have the option of exporting the solid from MC in a universal format if required. More complex work or assemblies, SW rules.

[gcode]

I've been doing MCfSW beta for a couple of years.. and its gotten good enough with X6 (its still in beta)

that I bought a copy.

I have always designed my fixtures and setups in Solidworks ... now I machine my fixtures in SolidWorks too.

I don't use it for complex stuff yet..but for fixtures and such it rocks

[Mick]

Just because somebody does not rant on CNC everytime they are near a keyboard does not mean they don't expose issues, report them, or say thing that would have the Anti-CNC crowd nodding in agreement . You outsiders have no clue what is said in the Beta Forum or amongst Beta Members, or between Forum Members and [email protected] . So before you accuse someone of not being openly critical of CNC, you should get your facts straight or find somewhere else to air your dirty laundry. There's PLENTY of other forums. Try this one, Mastercam Forum, CNC Zone's Mastercam Forum, or Practical Machinist's CAD/CAM Forum to name a few.

 

I just looked at the Mastercamforum. There is no way I would sign up there, even if the content apealed to me. The interface is like watching an old black and white movie in the dark. Then I saw a poster by the surname of Banquer.... enough said

[Guest]

I hear all the chanting about Volumill, now I am pretty certain but I will leave the caveat that perhaps I am missing something but I don't "think" so.....

 

I believe if Volumill wanted to keep developing their product for Mastercam they could. What they have developed is a C-hook.

 

If they "really" thought this market was worth having, they could invest in a seat of Mastercam, getting the access to the product and the SDK.

 

 

With that being done, they could continue to develop and market their product separate of CNC Software

 

So to lay this solely at the feet of CNC is, if nothing a bit unfair.