Old bugs back again. Thanks alot CNC!

[Bob W.]

I guess what I'm getting at is there are a healthy number of limitations that CNC is subject to given the way they have constructed the application. If they were to do anothet re-write, they could save themselves A LOT of grief if they did things the way other CAD Assembly modelers did things. Granted, it's probably more work on the front end, but rarely do you enjoy benefits on the front end, you usually work hard then reap the benefits down the road.

 

I think a major reasons there are so many bugs is that they have been working around these limitations for so long. I really think things are going to get worse until they scrap this approach and handle geometry more like traditional CAD packages. When I had the NX demo a while back the handling of solids and the interface was a lot like typical CAD packages such as Solidworks or ProE.

[gaijin_2007]

I guess what I'm getting at is there are a healthy number of limitations that CNC is subject to given the way they have constructed the application

 

I think the biggest limitation they have is that Mastercam seems to be getting to the point where it's just a collection of third party technology that CNC glues together.

Have they made development cut backs over the last few years and are relying more and more on third party technology?

Because this thread is pretty sad.

[MIL-TFP-41]

It's early days for stock model in Mastercam, not the technology as a whole.

Mastercam is at least 5 years behind the curve in stock recognition

 

And at least 10 years behind when it comes to lathe.

 

Because this thread is pretty sad.

 

I know the comeback...."I have never seen a part that I could not make with Mastercam". I can agree with that statement......however...after relocating to a new area & starting to scratch the surface of a new/different software (NX) I can say that there are other solutions that can say that also.....and they can do it with less effort.

 

Mastercam is going the right direction with their HSM paths...no doubt. Problem is all the bugs and other issues that come along with these paths. Speaking of old toolpaths.....have the old school surfacing toolpaths (flowline, contour, ect) made the transition to the new style "tree" interface? If no....WTF is up with that?

[neurosis]

I think the biggest limitation they have is that Mastercam seems to be getting to the point where it's just a collection of third party technology that CNC glues together.

Have they made development cut backs over the last few years and are relying more and more on third party technology?

Because this thread is pretty sad.

 

 

Hopefully this thread will get CNC's attention. Its getting allot of their customers and probably potential customers attention.

 

I am happy that they appear to be listening to us and considering revamping their web site to assist in customer interaction.

 

They need to take a year off from future development and spend that time trying to figure out how to get organized so that we dont have to deal with the same issues every new release of the software.

[Redfire427]

Well said Neurosis. I can only wish that X7 is nothing but a proper working version of Mastercam with attention paid to ALL the problems that still persist since X started.

[BenK]

Well said Neurosis. I can only wish that X7 is nothing but a proper working version of Mastercam with attention paid to ALL the problems that still persist since X started.

 

 

I think the only way that will ever happen is if they go to a longer development cycle. I think everyone would be much happier if they went to a 2 or 3 year development cycle and released maintenance updates every year with service packs (bug fixes) as soon as they were available. To me it seems that they try to rush out the next release too quickly and things get overlooked.

[gcode]

I think the original sales pitch when they announced the maintenance plan back in V9 days

was

Annual point releases ( V9, X, X2, X3 etc)

quarterly or biannual MU's (maintenance upgrades)

and SP's (service packs) as needed

obviously that has proven to be an overly ambitious plan.

 

I don't think there has been an SP since X2, there have never been quarterly MU's

and point releases have usually have about a 14 month lifespan with the exception

of X2 which lasted about 20 months (???)

[Thee Rickster ™]

"I have never seen a part that I could not make with Mastercam"

 

Lamest statement eva!

 

Try making the stuff I do with out software and making patterns, been there done that.

 

quarterly or biannual MU's (maintenance upgrades)

and SP's (service packs) as needed

 

I would like to get a hold that document.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Most of the "maintenance updates" were nothing more than bug fixes...which, to a logical thinking mind....should be a "service pack". But NOOOO...CNC Software cannot admit to making mistakes....they just pull a download (X6) for a month, fix it, then reissue the download. If anything....people that are on the current version (ie those willing to beta test) should be on X6 SP1

[Redfire427]

The thing that annoys me is the way the beta testing is handled. There are a number of beta testers on this forum that have the thankless job of testing the software prior to production release. The part that bothers me is the fact that these people have to pay full pop for their software plus the cost of maintainance. I am beginning my 20th year as a Mastercam user and have brought forth many issues during my tenure. I have also "sold" roughly a dozen seats of Mastercam on behalf of my reseller to my own company ( at the time ) as well as 3 others I have worked for over the years. Based on my experience, I was asked to become a beta tester which I refused. My reasoning was very simple. I would be spending a considerable amount of my time,( unpaid time at that ) experiencing "issues" that I would have to report my findings with documentation to CNC Software. Also, I would be assuming the risk of a crash on a $200K to $400K piece of equipment where there would be no recourse if it were proven to be a fault of the software.

 

I think every single version of X that has been released, I have been able to find a major bug within the first 5 minutes of using the software. What I find to be completely absurd as well as unacceptable, is how some of these basic issues ever made it past the beta testing. It is my belief that the registered beta testers should be compensated for their time and effort which in the end would allow CNC Software to release a better product. Quite frankly, every single user of Mastercam is a beta tester to some degree or another. I USED to swear by Mastercam. I USED to have unwavering confidence in the toolpaths I produced. Please note these last two sentences were in the past tense.

 

Another unacceptable practice is the way CNC Software's "powers that be" monitor this forum and only chime in when it is convenient for them. I think it would be a very responsible business decision on the part of CNC Software to have a "goto person" assigned to monitor this forum and address their customers issues. Yeah I know, report it to your reseller. Unfortunately, that is a waste of time. Don't get me wrong, I think my reseller does a great job, but they don't write the software. All they can do is submit the issue to CNC Software on my behalf, but yet, the issue is never dealt with. I don't think it is any secret of what a disaster the release of X6 has been. Jim Evans was quite vocal for a while trying to calm the masses and that "things" were being looked at. Re-release dates came and went, but when the "final product" came out, the core users are still struggling with the same issues. More importantly, many issues of previous releases has never been addressed.

 

I am a mold maker with roughly 25 years experience, as well a having owned a business. I cannot imagine for one second of sending a finshed mold to a customer and then telling them to report any bugs they have and we will see what we can do. If my business was run like CNC SOftware's approach, when the customer calls, the phone doesn't even get answered.

 

It would be my sole desire to have CNC Software temporarily suspend any future development of the software until they fix ALL the issues they currently have. LISTEN to your customers complaints and deal with them in a timely manner. Communicate with your resellers ( yeah, the ones we bitch to ) so they can keep us in the loop as to when to expect patches, bug fixes, or whatever you choose to call them.

 

 

Carmen Goudey

[Watcher]

The thing that annoys me is the way the beta testing is handled. There are a number of beta testers on this forum that have the thankless job of testing the software prior to production release. The part that bothers me is the fact that these people have to pay full pop for their software plus the cost of maintainance. I am beginning my 20th year as a Mastercam user and have brought forth many issues during my tenure. I have also "sold" roughly a dozen seats of Mastercam on behalf of my reseller to my own company ( at the time ) as well as 3 others I have worked for over the years. Based on my experience, I was asked to become a beta tester which I refused. My reasoning was very simple. I would be spending a considerable amount of my time,( unpaid time at that ) experiencing "issues" that I would have to report my findings with documentation to CNC Software. Also, I would be assuming the risk of a crash on a $200K to $400K piece of equipment where there would be no recourse if it were proven to be a fault of the software.

 

I think every single version of X that has been released, I have been able to find a major bug within the first 5 minutes of using the software. What I find to be completely absurd as well as unacceptable, is how some of these basic issues ever made it past the beta testing. It is my belief that the registered beta testers should be compensated for their time and effort which in the end would allow CNC Software to release a better product. Quite frankly, every single user of Mastercam is a beta tester to some degree or another. I USED to swear by Mastercam. I USED to have unwavering confidence in the toolpaths I produced. Please note these last two sentences were in the past tense.

 

Another unacceptable practice is the way CNC Software's "powers that be" monitor this forum and only chime in when it is convenient for them. I think it would be a very responsible business decision on the part of CNC Software to have a "goto person" assigned to monitor this forum and address their customers issues. Yeah I know, report it to your reseller. Unfortunately, that is a waste of time. Don't get me wrong, I think my reseller does a great job, but they don't write the software. All they can do is submit the issue to CNC Software on my behalf, but yet, the issue is never dealt with. I don't think it is any secret of what a disaster the release of X6 has been. Jim Evans was quite vocal for a while trying to calm the masses and that "things" were being looked at. Re-release dates came and went, but when the "final product" came out, the core users are still struggling with the same issues. More importantly, many issues of previous releases has never been addressed.

 

I am a mold maker with roughly 25 years experience, as well a having owned a business. I cannot imagine for one second of sending a finshed mold to a customer and then telling them to report any bugs they have and we will see what we can do. If my business was run like CNC SOftware's approach, when the customer calls, the phone doesn't even get answered.

 

It would be my sole desire to have CNC Software temporarily suspend any future development of the software until they fix ALL the issues they currently have. LISTEN to your customers complaints and deal with them in a timely manner. Communicate with your resellers ( yeah, the ones we bitch to ) so they can keep us in the loop as to when to expect patches, bug fixes, or whatever you choose to call them.

 

 

Carmen Goudey

 

+10000³¹

[neurosis]

I couldnt have said it better myself.

 

The thing that annoys me is the way the beta testing is handled. There are a number of beta testers on this forum that have the thankless job of testing the software prior to production release. The part that bothers me is the fact that these people have to pay full pop for their software plus the cost of maintainance. I am beginning my 20th year as a Mastercam user and have brought forth many issues during my tenure. I have also "sold" roughly a dozen seats of Mastercam on behalf of my reseller to my own company ( at the time ) as well as 3 others I have worked for over the years. Based on my experience, I was asked to become a beta tester which I refused. My reasoning was very simple. I would be spending a considerable amount of my time,( unpaid time at that ) experiencing "issues" that I would have to report my findings with documentation to CNC Software. Also, I would be assuming the risk of a crash on a $200K to $400K piece of equipment where there would be no recourse if it were proven to be a fault of the software.

 

I think every single version of X that has been released, I have been able to find a major bug within the first 5 minutes of using the software. What I find to be completely absurd as well as unacceptable, is how some of these basic issues ever made it past the beta testing. It is my belief that the registered beta testers should be compensated for their time and effort which in the end would allow CNC Software to release a better product. Quite frankly, every single user of Mastercam is a beta tester to some degree or another. I USED to swear by Mastercam. I USED to have unwavering confidence in the toolpaths I produced. Please note these last two sentences were in the past tense.

 

Another unacceptable practice is the way CNC Software's "powers that be" monitor this forum and only chime in when it is convenient for them. I think it would be a very responsible business decision on the part of CNC Software to have a "goto person" assigned to monitor this forum and address their customers issues. Yeah I know, report it to your reseller. Unfortunately, that is a waste of time. Don't get me wrong, I think my reseller does a great job, but they don't write the software. All they can do is submit the issue to CNC Software on my behalf, but yet, the issue is never dealt with. I don't think it is any secret of what a disaster the release of X6 has been. Jim Evans was quite vocal for a while trying to calm the masses and that "things" were being looked at. Re-release dates came and went, but when the "final product" came out, the core users are still struggling with the same issues. More importantly, many issues of previous releases has never been addressed.

 

I am a mold maker with roughly 25 years experience, as well a having owned a business. I cannot imagine for one second of sending a finshed mold to a customer and then telling them to report any bugs they have and we will see what we can do. If my business was run like CNC SOftware's approach, when the customer calls, the phone doesn't even get answered.

 

It would be my sole desire to have CNC Software temporarily suspend any future development of the software until they fix ALL the issues they currently have. LISTEN to your customers complaints and deal with them in a timely manner. Communicate with your resellers ( yeah, the ones we bitch to ) so they can keep us in the loop as to when to expect patches, bug fixes, or whatever you choose to call them.

 

 

Carmen Goudey

[Newbeeee™]

Well put Carmen.

Sometimes you have to take a step back to then go forwards again.

[K2csq7]

I USED to swear by Mastercam. I USED to have unwavering confidence in the toolpaths I produced.

I used to not think twice about hitting go on a new program.

I think that changed for me about the time of the introduction of the control def and machine def. I made 1000's of programs with V9, simple drilling to 3D surfacing toolpaths. I would double check my offsets/setup at the machine, close the door and move on to the next one without thinking twice.

Thinking about it now makes me wonder weather the "advances" have outweighed the "double/triple checking" time I now spend looking for issues.

[#Rekd™]

I can't believe that CNC keeps releasing new versions so often $$$$ without fixing the crap from previous versions.

 

I am slowly moving away from Mastercam and heading to Siemens NX.

[gaijin_2007]

Mastercam is going the right direction with their HSM paths...no doubt.

 

Aren't those toolpaths developed by NC Graphics/PTC/whoever the hell else owns the code this year?

I'm convinced that's the real problem, it's that the glue holding all this together is wearing thin.

And all the developers at CNC are doing are just putting band-aids over the issues.

 

I can't see CNC going to a 2 or 3 year development cycle, they'd get slaughtered by the competition especially guys like Delcam who push 2 major releases a year and monthly service pack updates.

I read some CIMData stuff about 4 years ago that had CNC having 30 something developers compared to Delcam having over 140.

Boy is that difference starting to show.

It seems the faster they're going to keep up the more mistakes are being made.

 

And +1 googolplex to Carmens comments.

[Newbeeee™]

Being honest, I don't see any real code issues. If something isn't working right (like helix bore with the comp issue), I'll skirt around it and use good old contour ramp.

But as I said previously probably in another thread (?), most of you guys are full time gramming, we're playing at it in comparrison.

[gcode]

Aren't those toolpaths developed by NC Graphics/PTC/whoever the hell else owns the code this year?

No.. the HSM toolpaths, both 2d and 3d are developed by CNC software.

The advanced 5x toolpaths are 3rd party

[neurosis]

Being honest, I don't see any real code issues. If something isn't working right (like helix bore with the comp issue), I'll skirt around it and use good old contour ramp.

But as I said previously probably in another thread (?), most of you guys are full time gramming, we're playing at it in comparrison.

 

 

Ive seen enough code issues over the last two years that make me very cautious when running new programs.

 

Ive had MAJOR issues that caused gouging, crashes, etc. Some of the issues have been with transform, and the infamous optirough bug.

 

Now I know that the optirough vertical arc lead bug has been fixed (?), but the ones caused by transform and the gouging caused by optirough that I experienced in X5 have not been addressed as far as I know.

 

My point is, I have very little confidence in code sent out the the machines at this point. I watch every movement with clinched cheeks.

 

We do not have vericut here and are not going to buy it just because we cannot trust the code that comes out of mastercam. We dont have any 5 axis machines and dont have the type of work that justifies the price. I am certain that they will switch systems before adding the expense of vericut.

[neurosis]

No.. the HSM toolpaths, both 2d and 3d are developed by CNC software.

The advanced 5x toolpaths are 3rd party

 

 

I heard a rumor that the older HSM paths were 3rd party. I suppose that is not correct then? I am not talking about any of the dynamic paths, but only the SHS.

[peon]

Hmmm, I thought Depocam created the HSM toolpaths. I have pro/e's Pro/Toolmaker 9.0 (former depocam from what I was told) on my workstation and it is nearly identical to the HSM toolpaths.

[gcode]

The original HSM toolpaths were deveopled by Cimco, but the 2D and 3D HSM toolpaths in Mastercam

were developed by CNC Software

 

You can still buy the Cimco HSM Performance Pack for Mastercam.

 

Guys who use it swear by it, but it doen't look like its getting much attention these days

from a quick run through the website.

[Mic]

Please check page 12.

My link

 

And this as well.

 

My link

 

Original HST toolpaths are from NC Graphics.

 

Cimco's HSM Performance Pack is also from NC Graphics.

[gcode]

My mistake... thanks

 

 

[Mic]

I read some CIMData stuff about 4 years ago that had CNC having 30 something developers compared to Delcam having over 140.Boy is that difference starting to show.

 

Just remember that these 140 developers are split over many softwares. Powermill, powershape, partmaker, featurecam + more.

 

I'm quite sure the powermill dev team is <50.