Old bugs back again. Thanks alot CNC!

[BenK]

Just remember that these 140 developers are split over many softwares. Powermill, powershape, partmaker, featurecam + more.

 

I'm quite sure the powermill dev team is <50.

 

 

And CNC software's are spread out over Mill, Lathe, Router, ART, Wire, Mastercam for Solidworks and who know what else. They are both in the same boat that way if you look at it.

[Newbeeee™]

The blokey writing the code for mill turn must be on long term sick

[gcode]

The question I have is,

If CNC leased their HSM toolpaths from NC Graphics

and

PTC bought NC Graphics

is

CNC leasing HSM toolpaths from PTC now???

 

maybe CNC started developing their own HSM in 2007 when PTC bought NC Graphics??

 

 

[Bob W.]

But remember, Mastercam has more than twice the market share of their closest competitor. From their web site:

 

"With more than 150,000 installed seats, Mastercam has more than twice the installed base of the closest competitor."

 

So how is it they they are getting by with half the developers of their competitors?

[gaijin_2007]

So how is it they they are getting by with half the developers of their competitors?

 

I think this thread is pretty good evidence that they're not getting by at all and seem to be falling behind.

Very, very sad indeed.

[MIL-TFP-41]

So how is it they they are getting by with half the developers of their competitors?

 

By making releases with twice as many bugs at 1/2 the pace

[gcode]

So how is it they they are getting by with half the developers of their competitors?

 

You won't like the solution

CNC's maintenance charges are 1/3 to 1/2 the competion's rates

they could double or triple them and use the $$$$ to double the development team

 

but seriously... how many software developers that can do CAD/CAM software are there in the world ???

[Mic]

Interesting.

 

PowerMill forum

 

Delcam has released service packs for Powermill 2011 even after releasing 2012. Powermill 2011 reached service pack 11 in its lifecycle.

 

I don't think Powermill has more bugs than Mastercam, I just think Delcam puts more pride in fixing problems.

[BenK]

I don't think Powermill has more bugs than Mastercam, I just think Delcam puts more pride in fixing problems.

 

+1

[chipman]

Well said Neurosis. I can only wish that X7 is nothing but a proper working version of Mastercam with attention paid to ALL the problems that still persist since X started.

 

If that ever happened I am sure many would drop maintenance, I have been hanging on for years hoping the next release will be better and I am still waiting...

[neurosis]

You won't like the solution

CNC's maintenance charges are 1/3 to 1/2 the competion's rates

they could double or triple them and use the $$$$ to double the development team

 

but seriously... how many software developers that can do CAD/CAM software are there in the world ???

 

 

Of all of the systems that we use here, Catia is the only one that charges a higher percentage for maintenance and if I recall, it is not by much.

[Cannon]

You won't like the solution

CNC's maintenance charges are 1/3 to 1/2 the competion's rates

they could double or triple them and use the $$$$ to double the development team

 

but seriously... how many software developers that can do CAD/CAM software are there in the world ???

 

Being the biggest, CNC- software probably has much more customers paying the maintenance than the competitors. They can keep the maintenance charge low and still get the same money.

[Mic]

Let's see if this post clears the sensorship

 

Some CAD/CAM maintenance percentage:

 

Mastercam 10%

Powermill 12%

Edgecam 16%

SolidWorks 25%

Siemens NX 22%

 

These numbers can of course vary from country to country.

[gaijin_2007]

CNC's maintenance charges are 1/3 to 1/2 the competion's rates

 

Sorry but this is off the mark in my opinion.

I agree with Neurosis, in my experience there's very little difference in maintenance costs between MC and other systems.

 

Some CAD/CAM maintenance percentage:

 

Mastercam 10%

Powermill 12%

Edgecam 16%

SolidWorks 25%

Siemens NX 22%

 

IIRC from a previous life powermill drops to 9% for any seat after the first, so 12% is only for the first seat.

[gcode]

Catia is the only one that charges a higher percentage for maintenance

 

we were paying more for one seat of Catia design than 3 full mill/lathe/multi axis seats of Mastercam

 

we dropped the Catia 2 years ago

 

maintenance on our seat of NX5 ( full manufacturing ) was stunning..we dropped it too..

wish we hadn't though, NX8 looks pretty cool

[Mic]

The original HSM toolpaths were deveopled by Cimco, but the 2D and 3D HSM toolpaths in Mastercam were developed by CNC SoftwareYou can still buy the Cimco HSM Performance Pack for Mastercam.Guys who use it swear by it, but it doen't look like its getting much attention these daysfrom a quick run through the website.

 

Cimco Performance Pack

 

Recently updated for X6 support. I've been told that it's still being developed as a "child" of the HSMWorks 3D kernel.

[gcode]

It's good that they are keeping it up to date

I'm sure Mastercam's adding HSM to their Level 3 package as really cut into sales

I got a demo license for it back in X2, but I wasn't doing enough HSM type work to justify the cost.

There are several people here on the forum who use it and love it though.

[Newbeeee™]

Is maintenance cost really an issue to people?

If we personally didn't pay it, we wouldn't have had the high speed paths which more than pay for the maintenance costs in time savings at the machine. And if we stop paying it and 'freeze' mcam, then very quickly we would start getting translation issues from our customers cad files.

We're only a 4x people company and have 2x full seats (level3, solids and lathe). Yes it hurts come renewal day, but we budget the cost in to the running costs.

That said, I think the bug fixes you guys go on about obviously need addressing.

Perhaps with mastercam.com changing, hopefully there will be a bug forum there, and then when they're listed perhaps the users will be able to help cnc prioritise which ones to get addressed 1st???

[neurosis]

Is maintenance cost really an issue to people?

 

 

 

I dont think that the complaint is so much paying the maintenance as it is what we are getting for it.

 

This company has never had an issue paying maintenance for these things. Mastercam has been the first system in this shop that I had to consistently beg them to continue paying.

[Joe788]

Is maintenance cost really an issue to people?

 

 

For Mastercam, no. It's only 10%, and in just the last 3 years, we've got dynamic milling, optirough, and then optirest. Worth every penny, since I use all of those toolpaths.

 

Solidworks on the other hand, we let lapse for a few years at a time. 25-30%, for stuff we don't really use, and they always come back with a "special deal" to drop any late charges. Even with Solidworks 2011, we get step files from Applied Materials that fail in Solidworks. Have to open them in MC, save them out of MC, and then open them in Solidworks to go about our regular process planning. We also have to use Mastercam to prepare the solids to go into PC-DMIS, since Solidworks won't spit out a step file with a reference coordinate system that works. XT out to Mastercam with a reference coordinate system, STEP out of Mastercam, and import into PC-DMIS.

 

PC-DMIS is $4k+, and I can't even come up with an analogy to describe how big of a POS that software is.

[gcode]

For Mastercam, no. It's only 10%, and in just the last 3 years, we've got dynamic milling, optirough, and then optirest. Worth every penny, since I use all of those toolpaths.

 

high speed rest rough and high speed milling have made our maintenance costs back easily.

 

we've got one 321 SS job here that used to run 140 hours ( on a $150/hr HBM) and used $10K worth of

inserts.

We've run it three times now using high speed contour roughing.

The cycle time is 35 hrs and 2 boxes of Sandvik 3/4 button inserts..

 

Another series of production parts we do involve lots of pockets in A36 mild steel

The cycle times used to be 80 to 100 hrs.

I dumped the 2" cobalt roughers and used Mitsubishi Hi feed cutters and Mastercam rest rough toolpaths

They now run in 20 to 30 hrs.

The boss doesn't even blink when I hand him the maintenance bill.

[Izzzy]

Take a look at the real issues. We all have to make a living using this software. version after version the old bugs are there. They throw out (enhancements to stir up new customers) which to me is hiding behind the wall. I have been around a long time and have made a good living as a CNC programmer using Mastercam. There are some good people working there. Sad thing is, they have lost touch with us, for what ever reason. My company will be looking elsewhere for productivity instead of paying year after year for the same problems. There is already a few long time members of this forum that have moved to better software.

fed up in Michigan

 

 

+1000

[Jroc85]

I dont think that the complaint is so much paying the maintenance as it is what we are getting for it.

 

I hear thee.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Just saved a customer today with a dynamic toolpath. Roughing used to take 16min... now it's a shade under 9 min. 15-5 stainless job. They used to have to change the corners on their insert tool after every part. They just ran 5 parts with a 1/2" endmill and it shows no sign of wear yet. They make 5,000 of these parts each year.

 

For those following along that would be in the neighborhood of 583 machining hours saved per year or 14 days of somethign else that machine can run now. Depending on the shop rate, they could have bought a few seats of software brand spanking on the savings of that one part.

 

Not saying there are not issues because there are, but... :whistle:

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

.