Okuma Mill Quality

[BCW]

Good morning all, I wanted to see if I could pull some opinions from the MasterCam community.

 

We currently have older Matsuura's (Horizontal and 5 axis) and are looking recapitalize our shop with new machinery and are considering using Okuma Mills specifically the MB4000H. I wanted to hear if any in the MasterCam world have had experience with the more recent Okuma Mills and opinions about build quality, rigidity, function and control ease of use and reliability? I would appreciate it if anyone could spare a few minutes to offer an opinion, thanks.

[Bob W.]

I run Makinos in my shop and I have never used and Okuma. I have never heard anything but outstanding reviews about the quality, speed, and reliability of Okuma machines though.

[Micromoldmaker]

I've worked with a couple of older vertical Okumas. I did not like them at all, these had a lot of issues with tool changers and just plain unpleasant method of setting up the work. Not as bad as a Fadal. Is there anything worse than a Fatal? LOL. Maybe the newer machines are better, dunno.

[jeff]

I love Okumas.

I've ran a few VMC's and lathes, and we just got 2 more in about 2 months ago.

Very good quality machines. And their controls are very user friendly.

[gcode]

We purchased a large Okuma 5 axis HMC last year and it is an excellent machine.

Powerful reliable and deadly accurate

[?Mark]

We purchased a large Okuma 5 axis HMC last year and it is an excellent machine.

Powerful reliable and deadly accurate

We did too, but smaller, an M800VH. Ours can't hold .005" without adjusting work offsets all over. Painfull when running true 5-axis toolpaths

[gcode]

I'm doing nothing but 5X tool paths, holding .020 true position on the walls

of 59" diameter vanes.

[MrFish]

I'm doing nothing but 5X tool paths, holding .020 true position on the walls

of 59" diameter vanes.

 

Hi Gcode, is that a typo or are you genuinely happy with a .020" accuracy on a part that big ?

[?Mark]

I'm doing nothing but 5X tool paths, holding .020 true position on the walls

of 59" diameter vanes.

I make tubes/ports with +/-.0025 to +/-.005 wall thickness tolerance and .010-.015 true profile.

Having an impossible time running those.

Those are the sales specs. When they (service) were here they couldn't get it to be better than .0007-.0008 over 15" in Z axis with the head in horizontal position.

And they advertise it to be better than .0002 over ENTIRE travel.

[gcode]

Hi Gcode, is that a typo or are you genuinely happy with a .020" accuracy on a part that big ?

 

We're talking about throwing 5000 pounds of steel around at 135 ipm for the roughing toolpaths

 

020 true position is the B/P call out for the vane walls and I'm meeting it easily.

I'm swarfing walls up to 4" LOC in finish tool paths.

I don't read every inspection report, but unless the walls are really twisty they typically come in

at .004 to .005. true position

 

This machine is out producing our gantry mill by 400% and the accuracy is outstanding.

We couldn't be happier with this machine

[Joe788]

Good morning all, I wanted to see if I could pull some opinions from the MasterCam community.

 

We currently have older Matsuura's (Horizontal and 5 axis) and are looking recapitalize our shop with new machinery and are considering using Okuma Mills specifically the MB4000H. I wanted to hear if any in the MasterCam world have had experience with the more recent Okuma Mills and opinions about build quality, rigidity, function and control ease of use and reliability? I would appreciate it if anyone could spare a few minutes to offer an opinion, thanks.

 

I don't think you'll have any issues with the machine quality (unless you buy the same one Mark bought ), but your operators might complain about the differences in program format. Using G56 for tool length offsets, then using "H" for work offsets?

 

Clark Machinery keeps spamming this nice 10 pallet MB:

 

http://inv.clarkmachinerysales.com/q/webinv/019548=p,4616,0M0130,,list,,,20244069

[Sticky]

Why wouldn't you just stick with Matsuura?

 

I haven't run Okumas so my opinion probably isn't worth too much, but its seems that the guys that come from lower end machine tools seem to think they are amazing, and the guys that come from higher end machines, like your Matsuuras, don't think they are in the same class of machinery.

 

Their turning centers seem to have more favorable reviews then their HMC's. Over on practicalmachinist.com I've read of a few people having issue with the hmc tool matrix system and having the control freeze up.

[BCW]

Why wouldn't you just stick with Matsuura?

 

I haven't run Okumas so my opinion probably isn't worth too much, but its seems that the guys that come from lower end machine tools seem to think they are amazing, and the guys that come from higher end machines, like your Matsuuras, don't think they are in the same class of machinery.

 

Their turning centers seem to have more favorable reviews then their HMC's. Over on practicalmachinist.com I've read of a few people having issue with the hmc tool matrix system and having the control freeze up.

 

 

Edit: Post removed since it did not reflect my views, but instead a co-worker posting under my account.

[YoDoug®]

FWIW, I work for an Okuma distributor so my opinion is probably scewed. However I will give you my honest .02C

 

We have a customer that has a little over 100 machines in their shop, over 90 of them are Okuma's. They run high volume production machining of cast iron, cast steel, and some aluminum for mainly automotive industry parts. They are hands down one of the hardest users on their machines in our territory. They run their machines to the maximum capacity of the machine. They constantly run spindles in the 90-110% load meter range for extended cuts. They also run programs with 20+ tool changes per hour. They have 21 Okuma HMC 50 taper machines. Over the years they have tried other Japanese brand machine tools. The Okuma's have outlasted and outperformed every other machine brought in that was put to that high demand usage.

 

Now with that being said, I like Okuma's because of the OSP control and it's open architecture/interface. But, if I was to consider other Fanuc based Japanese machine tools my list would include Makino, OKK, and Matsuura.

[Sticky]

Since I/we have used Matsuura's for so long we have seen a real decline in the quality of the product and they are not keeping up with incorporating modern technology into the controls. They made great machines in the 90's but have fallen off ever since. Thanks for the post.

 

Whats models do you have?

 

This is a slightly different experience then mine. I found that my 80's Matsuuras were as nice or nicer then my 90's Matsuuras, and I think the mid 2000's and up are quite a bit nicer and better built then the 90's.

 

As far as control options go, you have the Fanuc 31i or Siemens 840 for multiaxis work, are both of those inadequate for your purposes?

[gcode]

Why wouldn't you just stick with Matsura

 

 

I did look at them, but they don't make them big enough for what I'm doing.

[Sticky]

I did look at them, but they don't make them big enough for what I'm doing.

 

Sorry G code, I intended that to be for the op.

[Mick]

I don't think you'll have any issues with the machine quality (unless you buy the same one Mark bought ), but your operators might complain about the differences in program format. Using G56 for tool length offsets, then using "H" for work offsets?

 

Clark Machinery keeps spamming this nice 10 pallet MB:

 

http://inv.clarkmach...list,,,20244069

 

G56 H* = G43 H*

 

G15 H1 = G54

G15 H2 = G55

G15 H3 = G56

 

etc etc.

 

Its not that big of a deal. If your operators complain about differences as minor as that maybe they should get out more...

 

We run several Okumas here. LB15 lathe, LB400 lathe, Multus B400W mill turn, MB56VA 4 axis vertical, and a MU500VA-II 5 axis machining centre. And we're looking at a LU twin turret lathe.

 

Great machines, great quality, and outstanding support. And you guys in the USA have an outstanding applications facility in Charlotte, NC.

[Redfire427]

I owned and operated Okuma verticals for the better part of 20 years. Absolute brute workhorses and legendary reliability. The number of service calls required over that time period could be counted on one hand. Great machines.

 

Carmen

[T_MALENA]

I like the Okuma's. I've been running many machines in my 25+ years. Okuma's are pretty tough & reliable. Now if you baby your machine with light cuts etc I do like the Mikron's - but they cant cut like the Okuma's. We are pretty tough on our equipment here...as in run 24 hrs, tool changes every 45 sec., max RPMs' etc. Our Okuma MA500 sold us on the robust & quality of Okuma's. We ran that machine at 6000-12000 non stop. It made 1 complete part every 2 min. It ran 6 tools in that 2 min. 4 of them were 49# each & they spun at 6000rpm. We ran that machine, sometimes non stop for 2 years that way. No crashes or anything bad, just work work work. Then sold it as a turnkey & that buyer is doing pretty much the samething. We now have 2 more Okumas running 24 hrs. And were looking to add 2 more this year here & 2 more in Ok. My only issue with Okuma is getting the odd parts. Most of the ODD stuff is stk in Japan not NC. That sucks when your machine has a issue. Even with that said I'd still buy another Okuma if the boss gave me the go ahead.

[BigRandy]

Thanks to everyone who offered feedback to my post, it was useful and much appreciated.

[BigRandy]

Not to confuse everyone, myself (BigRandy) and BCW work out of the same office, and again thank you.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Since I/we have used Matsuura's for so long we have seen a real decline in the quality of the product and they are not keeping up with incorporating modern technology into the controls. They made great machines in the 90's but have fallen off ever since. Thanks for the post.

 

What technology do you find missing? I have been around Matsuura's of different vintages in the last 20 years. The new ones are MUCH nicer than the old ones. The 30i control is very solid, and the 840Di is a screamer...even faster than the 30i.

 

We have a Mori NH5000 (not a NHX) and a Matsurra h-plus 405 sitting right next to each other. The Mori has their fancy MAPPS overlay...but in the end its a fanuc. The 405 is a faster machine (note...neither machine comes with chip augers, which is totally fvcking stupid). Both are solid machines....

 

At my previous job they were a total Okuma shop (they did have 2 doosans....they were a pile compared to the Okuma's.) We were running the MA-500H's. Very nice machines also. Better than the matsuura's? tough to call. The Okuma's did have their "turncut" feature which, as far as I know, is not offered on ANY fanuc machine. And they did have a 400 tool capacity 50 taper magazine...

[mchin-pilot]

Okumas are very high quality machines, no sensitive issues whatsoever. OSP is a very nice control. Its Okumas own control, runs ISO Programmes.

 

Beautiful machines.