O/T Movin on

[Noel]

I have been ofered a job at a shop in the area that pays more but the shop is fairly disfunctional.They want me to get things running more smoothly and pofitably.I have been at my current shop for 20 years now and am torn as to what to do. How many members have had to make a decision like this and what helped to make up your mind to stay or go.

 

 

Noel

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

For me the "threat" of a challenge is enough for me to lick my chops. Stability is definitely something to consider though. I would not jump onto a sinking ship.

 

JM2C

[MACHINEMASTERG]

some times change is good...i was in the same situation a few years back i told my company and they said whats it going to take to keep you and i told then "show me the money$$$" and upgrade mcam and some equipment into the 20th centry ...so they did and i stayed and im glad i did my other buddie ended up going to the other place and left in the first year ...its a tuff call i guess only you can decide ...good luck

[Rekd™]

Will that new shop be around in 5 years? Will you get along with the people there? Does that shop really want to change? Is it worth 20 years of dedication?

 

I'd be very leary.

 

'Rekd

[Noel]

Thats the thing the new shop has been around for about 15 years now and is very diverse in the types of work they do.I have been helping out part time for about 3 months now and cant help thinking about it when I am at my day job.I'm trying to make sure it isn't a case of the grass is always greener.the guy that owns the company is a friend of mine and is real good at getting the work the problem seems to be getting the work out the door.I hate these type of decisions.

 

 

Noel

[Harryman]

Make sure the boss is not the cause of the disfunction. You can't fix him.

[Jean-Simon]

Believe me Noel I understand you, but the thing is that my decision is taken (last week) I'm going back on the shop floor, actually in the offices but in the shop, I've been working for the MC dealer for 1 1/2 year , had a very good time and learned a lot but need to smell the coolant, as some said before, do what you feel is the best for you, you gotta be happy in what your doing. I know it's embarassing but you'll go through.

 

 

Simon:cheers:

[Racer X]

Excellent point Harryman!

 

In all my job hopping I have found that a change of scenery usually only means a change of dysfunction. Those things that you may be unhappy with now will only be traded for other things that you will be unhappy with. There are no perfect workplaces as you know. Are you willing to compromise your future for the desire of the moment?

 

Look at what you have now and have to gain where you are. Then look at the potential of the new place. And for Heaven's sake get the offer in writing. Whatever they are willing to offer they should be willing to offer on paper.

[shipster]

Stick to your gut decision Noel. I made what I thought was a questionable step into a new job at a large company to run the machine shop. That was 9 years ago and one of the best moves I have ever made. Good luck

[Noel]

Harry

 

 

That is one of my concerns.He is a very demanding boss as far as the quality of your work.Which is fine by me because I am the same way (as close to perfection as possible).I have known the boss for 3 years now .The phone bill is huge when we get talking shop.He has told me the shop would be mine to run as I see fit,but with that comes a lot of responcability. My biggest fear is if things change when it becomes an emploee boss relationship.I though about a leave of absence to try it out but as I am the only one at my current shop that knows mastercam that wouldn't go over to well.

 

 

Noel

[Scott Bond]

I cut this sentence out of Rekd's post

quote:

---

Does that shop really want to change?

---

I feel that where I work now some guys just refuse to change.My fellow workers do not know what they are doing because they do not want to know .

It burns me a little, but I was aware that the basic shop skill sets were somewhere about 1988, and I did comit to improve this when i was hired.

I was hoping to convert the non beleavers, but at this point I don't see the "I can make it faster by hand team" changeing over.

It's not all gloom and doom after a 1 1/2 year effort I have three men well on their way to 2004 skill-sets, and standards. I'm hoping that they pick a forth member and train him,, and so on. when I see that I beleave I will feel some success.

Change is hard,,,untimatley you will make your own choice(for this change), I just wanted to share some of what I'm doing to convert a shop.

[Noel]

It will definatly be on paper.I dont do anything on a promise even if it was the pope.

 

 

Noel

[Mike Mattera - TFM]

If they're disfunctional, it's probably because the owner keeps it that way. I seen shops like this before, where they will tell you, you can do what ever it takes. That means "money is no object, Unless you want to spend some". Old equipment, dirty environments and bad attitudes can be hard to turn around without the FULL support of the owner.

 

So think of this: They have long time employees (LTE)there also. So after explaining the new procedure to the LTE for the 6th time, you want to take diciplinary action. Who's side will the owner be on?

 

This guy may really want to turn things around, but doesnt know how to get it done. You have to go with your gut feelings.

 

Good Luck

 

Mike Mattera

[Noel]

The shop forman defected and took most of the employees with him so all of the machine shop guys are new.I got to interveiw most of the new guys before they were hired.I have worked with the new guys and they seem to be pretty good workers with little attitude.The boss has no problem showing someone the door if they are not up to snuff.mabey i'll make a ridiculous proposal and if he says yes it will help make the decision easier.

 

 

Noel

[Brendan P]

'Reked,

You make some very good points.

 

Noel,good luck either way.

[Nominal]

quote:

---

The shop forman defected and took most of the employees with him

---

That tells me alot. The other employee's were more loyal to the foreman than the guy thats signing the paychecks. To me that means they had no faith in the owner they probably think he's an a**h*le. If people are ready to leave thier jobs in mass then he probably is one. If you decide to go to work for him you should figure what the highest salary is that you could expect for your position and add 20%. Make sure vacation time is discussed and sick time and insurance etc.etc.etc.

[jrykrl]

+1 ridiculous proposal.

Jer

[Jack Mitchell]

“That is one of my concerns. He is a very demanding boss as far as the quality of your work. Which is fine by me because I am the same way (as close to perfection as possible”

 

Sorry Noel – It might be my age but I find this response rather expensive.

It’s a lesson learned the hard way but I might suggest giving the customer exactly what he asks for and not one micron more.

 

“The shop foreman defected and took most of the employees with him”

 

Follow the foreman if given a choice and avoid the working for a good friend routine – I have yet to see this become a great working relationship.

 

My two cents says to avoid this situation, you might perhaps consider consulting with Scott Bonds lucky black ball.

 

 

Regards, Jack

[Rekd™]

+1 Jack. Don't do more than you have to, because the customer isn't paying for that. Don't give him crap either, though.

 

If the rats started jumping ship, there's prolly a good reason.

 

'Rekd

[PE @ IHS]

Hey Noel

 

You might not remember me, but I worked with you years ago at your current job at BMT.

 

If I were you, I would stay put. High turnover is a bad sign, and you do not want to be job hunting again in 6 months if this doesn't pan out. The days of getting tons of CNC or CAM job offers are pretty much over, especially in the mold industry.

 

 

As a shop manager, you will triple your stress level, and are no more immune to being fired than if you were running a machine.

 

good luck with any decision you make.

[iowajim62]

Hi Noel,

 

quote:

---

mabey i'll make a ridiculous proposal and if he says yes it will help make the decision easier.

---

It might help and it might fog ur vision enuff to not see the real problems/issues. From here it sounds like ur friend/boss is in bigsh!t trouble with his customers and is lookin for the quick fix. Long term shop or not if he can't deliver somebody else will. Also wanted to ask what kind of Quality Assurance is in place and do the "new" workers fully understand and appreciate it ? As well do they have some sort of aptitude test or minimum job requirements standards to go by for the workers ? You also stated he's not afraid to show them the door. Are you afraid to ? Because this is gonna be ur shop. Alot of things to think about as far as who's in charge once ur there him or you ? The money won't mean nuthin if ur miserable and dread goin to work everyday. On the other side of the coin is the possibility that u made the best move ever in your whole career and you couldn't be happier being the "Boss" .

JM2C

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

The money won't mean nuthin if ur miserable and dread goin to work everyday

---

Can I get an "Amen, brotha!"

 

'Rekd

[Noel]

All very good points.As far as bieng the boss and the stress level goes I more or less do that now.It's hard to come in every day and build the same parts just different sizes everyday.If I do this it will be for the challenge more than the money.Dont get me wrong the money would be a big part.As far as it not working out I am not the least bit scared of finding something else.There is always work for good toolmakers.I'm only 37 and a big part of me doesn't want to get old and think what if.

 

 

Noel

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

If it would be me I would stay .

I was in such situation not once (a paiment better,more responsibility ,and so on ) but considering what Rekd ,Mike and others said I stayed and do not regret .

If you want to do a risky thing your paiment must be really high ,but if you are going to do something you don`t like too to hell with a money .

I only want to say one thing -don`t look back .Make a decision and say it is a right one ,Never consider what would happen if I made the opposite decision .Anyway you can not know ,is it right or wrong anyway .

 

Good luck

[Fig sign]

Noel .

If you are in a situation ,when money is a main factor ,consider money .

In all others try to do what you like .

If you ask this questions this is a sign that there are many things you don`t like in this possible work.

Life is short and you work a big part of it,try to do what you like .

 

It is a great thing ,that most of my life I did what I liked