Why is MCX unstable ???

[beej]

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Extreme High Master Toolpath Engineering God

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So this is like CRASH of the Titans

[Garen Cakmak/CAP Tech.]

Hi Guys

 

I was having the same problem with my laptop Dell M70.The problem was the video card drivers. I tried everything they asked me too and pin pointed to the videocard drivers. Try to get some versions of the videocard drivers directly from nvidia.com make sure they are whql certified and make sure to try the ones until you find the proper combination of stability .This is just a videocard issue nothing more. its probably the functions Mastercam is using that is not working with the version of the videocard drivers. This is not a Mastercam Issue, that’s why if you look at it you will see that every software suggests different versions.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Randle,

 

Also try turning off multi-threading in your system bios. Mastercam doesn't like this one too much. Also, is your network drive running BlackIce by any chance? Its a little firewall utility that Mastercam doesn't like very well. We are running 18 copies of Mastercam here on a NetHasp and working only from the Network drive. We have practically elimitated crashes in Mastercam.

 

Another note has to do with running functions in Mastercam in-line. I recommend that when you are using Mastercam you use the ESC key to fully exit a function before beginning a new one. Mastercam seems to run better if you exit the current command before calling a new one. Jumping into Xform while in the middle of creating a line isn't necessarly the best idea. I'm not saying it won't work, but Mastercam has been notoriously bad at Memory Management in windows.

 

On a final note, if you notice Mastercam behaving strangely at all, STOP and save your file. Shut down Mastercam and restart the program. By strangely, I am refering to things like entities not highlighting correctly, the 2D/3D switch not working, shading not turning on or off, in short, Anything out of the ordinary. I know its a pain, but we have eliminated most of our crashes here using these simple techniques. I also tend to save after every toolpath I create and save before verifying.

 

Also, IMHO, the programmers at CNC Software have done a pretty darn good job at taking a C language program and re-writing it from the ground up in .NET. Having done a very limited amount of C, VB, and C# programming, I can tell you that the guys at CNC Software are doing incredible stuff with Mastercam. Do you remember how buggy V9 was when it was first released? It took several years before we got a truly stable release. Now within a year of the release of X we are about to get MR2 which should be the cat's meow. At least we can hope.......

 

-Colin

[RandleXX]

Hello Garen, hows the robot business?

 

I think you are possibly correct about the video drivers. I made the setting changes that Mike Gates recommended. Hopfully that will fix it..

 

Thanks Mike

[Roger Peterson]

Randle, if I was crashing on a file like that I would have been screaming too. I would suggest, like previously noted, try working off your hard drive, turn off multi-threading, turn off system restore, try unhooking your pc from the network and log in locally, limit your "undo" file size to 50mb or so, turn off unified back/depth buffer for your video card, anyone else have something?

 

Try these one at a time, something will "click" and work. Do not underestimate how much damage network logins can do to applications. We had a customer that could barely get mastercam to run if he logged into the network, same login just unplug the ethernet cable and it worked fine. No matter what they tried that was the case, created a new user account for him and everything was fine, oh and this was a very, very large company with unlimited resources on the best pc money could buy/build due to him working with 200mb to 300mb files everyday.

 

 

HTH

[Mike Gates from Barefoot CNC]

Networking is still a hit and miss deal sometimes. When I was a customer of Mastercam, it sometimes took me 10 minutes to save a simple 2d drawing because of the massive firewall set up by the IT department. You talk about aggrevation. But we have some customers doing huge 3d solid modeling that have no trouble with their network.

 

Keep up the good work and hang in there and hopefully soon the guys here can help you get on the smooth path.

[Ed@Elite]

We have 6 seats of Level 3 Mastercam X. We save our files on each computers local hard drive, so no saving across a network.

 

On ALL of these computers we have random crashes while saving files. And of course the file is gone/corrupt, because is was in the process of saving.

 

This happened to us a lot in Version 9 as well.

 

There are definately some stability issues with Mastercam. NO software should corrupt a file, especially while saving something.

[RandleXX]

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!

ARRRGH!!!!!

 

 

I have 19 of these darn molds to do, I must have hit ctrl-alt-del a hundred times today..

 

BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

ok, I feel better now....

[Storkman]

Well little man, I looked at your file, regened with no problems, verified with true solids with no problems, waited.........................still no crash.........................had a beer.............still no crash...........so ........when are you going to quit blaming the software for your apparent inadequacys?

[Thad]

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This is just a videocard issue nothing more. its probably the functions Mastercam is using that is not working with the version of the videocard drivers.

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Have you tried saving the .mcx and .nci to your hard drive and working from there till done?

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Go to desktop and right click in it to bring up menu, pick properties/settings/advanced/troubleshoot/move hardware acceleration slider to 1 bar to the right of none/ok/appearance/effects/uncheck the transition effects box/ok/apply/ok

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Also try turning off multi-threading in your system bios. Mastercam doesn't like this one too much. Also, is your network drive running BlackIce by any chance? Its a little firewall utility that Mastercam doesn't like very well.

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try working off your hard drive, turn off multi-threading, turn off system restore, try unhooking your pc from the network and log in locally, limit your "undo" file size to 50mb or so, turn off unified back/depth buffer for your video card

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Do not underestimate how much damage network logins can do to applications. We had a customer that could barely get mastercam to run if he logged into the network, same login just unplug the ethernet cable and it worked fine.

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Why are any of these fixes necessary? I think that's the main point in this thread. Has anyone had to jump through these kind of hoops to keep other software (of any kind) running? I think the above list is ridiculous.

 

For you guys having problems with Dell, how does you machine specs match up with the recommended "Mastercam Dell Workstation" specs?

 

Thad

[Hardmill]

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Well little man, I looked at your file, regened with no problems, verified with true solids with no problems, waited.........................still no crash.........................had a beer.............still no crash...........so ........when are you going to quit blaming the software for your apparent inadequacys?

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Dont hold back Storky, lets really hear how ya feel

 

 

PEACE

[Storkman]

BTW Randle, all that was on a Dell workstation.

[Bruce Caulley]

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Why are any of these fixes necessary? I think that's the main point in this thread. Has anyone had to jump through these kind of hoops to keep other software (of any kind) running? I think the above list is ridiculous.

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+ a gazzilion

[M. Anderson]

THAD asks the million dollar question:

 

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Why are any of these fixes necessary? I think that's the main point in this thread. Has anyone had to jump through these kind of hoops to keep other software (of any kind) running? I think the above list is ridiculous.

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Bruce:

 

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+ a gazzilion

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+ ONE MORE GAZZILION

 

DEAR READERS:

You may want to skip to next message!

This is not really worth mine or your time!

 

I have said to myself I would not do this:

 

Oh, well -

 

Rant START:

 

I have tried to have patience with X, but just too many problems. Plus the new interface is - well - sort of clumsy at best, yea, I can get around and make it work, but it could and should have been better. I don't even have X installed on my work machine, I do at home, and do try to use it on actual work on occasion.

 

My problems may be of my making or NOT, that’s not the point.

 

“MY” point is I have tried other software of late (last 8-10 months) – Pro/E, SolidCam, FeatureCam and have a demo and trial scheduled for Esprit (Wire for a Charmille).

 

Of the one’s I have tried so far – NONE, repeat NONE - have had to have the list of CRAP listed above or elsewhere on the forum done to my computer to make the software run on it. Also I never managed to crash any of them - Now this was just trials and maybe I didn't push them hard enough? I don't know! But they were fully functional and 30 to 60 day trials. I did even run some of the code.

 

I have two, DELL workstation 670's, Dual Xeon 2.8, 2gig, 160 raid, nVidia Quadro 3450, both on networks, one at home, one at work.

 

I refuse to "downgrade", turn off features, or "dumb-down" my computer's performance for anyone’s software.

 

I do use it for other things also!

 

MC is not the "End All" of software I use!

 

Have I called my dealer and pitched any “Hissy Fits” about X -

 

NO! – Why, because I read on the forum and can tell from problems listed here, Ver. X is still not as MATUER a piece of software as it needs to be before I am willing to trust it to run my machines. In “MY” opinion, it is still not ready for release. Maybe in 2-3 years?

 

Plus, my dealer is just that the “DEALER”, they don’t write the code.

 

Thank GOD! That would really be a mess! (Hi, Steve)

 

Why would I want to xxxx and moan and make them mad, (and I would - just my personality), they are the greatest bunch of guys around – help me when ever I need it, no questions ask.

 

Hell, we are on maintenance for a piece of software we DON’T even USE!

 

Just paid it a month or so ago! (probably last time if we don't start using X soon)

 

Point to all this rambling is – I have used other fully functional CAM and CAD/CAM software on the same computer as I run MC-X on and none of them had the problems I have with X. (didn’t like any of them either! ) None of "MY" problems are any different than what is listed here or in the Beta Forum everyday, so why would I want to use a piece of software that looses files, locks up in verify, or any of the other "Laundry List" of items you see every day. For now – V9 does what I need done - (makes me money) – although X does have some things that would be useful.

 

And don’t give me this crap that X is a total RE-WRITE - problems are going to happen, a lot of the code behind X is a carryover from V9 with a new “Front End” slapped on it, or the same problems in V9 would not have been carried over to X.

 

Hmmm, lets see – X still don’t play nice with very many graphics cards, or you have to turn this off and slow this down or ….?, or…? - yet ATI, nVIDIA, MATROX and others all have Pro/E, Catia, DelCam, Solidworks, Etc. Certified drivers and cards! And the ones I have tried all played nice on my machine with no changes!

 

Can you say - CODING!

 

If X is/was, truly a TOTAL re-write - then CNC Software needs some new CODERS and a new QC Dept. as the same old problems – and the same old problems, seem to just carry on and on and on….. from version to version.

 

Take this for what you paid for it!

 

Rant END!

 

Later,

 

Mark

[Bruce Caulley]

+ another gazzilion

 

I don't quite agree with the software not being ready for release yet, but I do think that MR1 should have been the initial release.

 

I am sticking with X because I am sure these problems are just teething problems ascociated with releasing it too early. (My opinion) Not only that but we just went through a major internal $hit fight over discontinuing maintenance on powermill and buying another MC seat and it is too late to go back on that decision now.

 

I know Randle rubs a few people up the wrong way, but FFS he always has a point, and continual browbeating and bellitling of people with these problems really gets under my skin. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard the term "seat time". Bollocks

 

Bruce

[M. Anderson]

Bruce:

 

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I don't quite agree with the software not being ready for release....

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Yea, that was a little over the top - SORRY - I can get simple straight forward code in MR1 to some degree.

 

Most of the time!

 

 

Also:

 

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I know Randle rubs a few people up the wrong way, but FFS he always has a point, and continual browbeating and bellitling of people with these problems really gets under my skin

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What was it... Oh yea,

 

+ another gazzilion

 

Poor ol' Randle -

 

But if I was having that much problem - I would not have to ask but once - One of the guys from my dealer would be at the shop everyday 'till it was fixed - I know these guys - they would not allow this to continue.

 

Good night - 1:30am here!

 

Mark

[Fig sign]

Everyone has a point .

But "Extreme High Master Toolpath Engineering God "

behaves rather childish .

Especially for God .

Maybe he is God of Crash j/k ?

Now my cynical point of view .

Folx ,what have you expected ?

I was the user of first Solidcam versions ,it was superCrash !

Every five minutes -enogh to draw a line or turn a part and Kaaboom !

It took them 10 years to get stability .

Same for Cimatron Elite _earlier versions like 2 or 3 _supercrash !

And lots ,tons of bugs ,very critical ones .

It is not free of bugs and crashes even now .

But the attitude of developers was different -

they are Gods and you work as you like (something buggy ->do not use it or find workaround )

Bugs may remain 5-10 years no matter what ?

And no Forums ,I do not consider Cimatron forum in Usa ,it is not active ,dead thing .

And I invite anyone ,especially Randell to write

Windows Api programfree of bugs ,even calculator .

Now I prefer ver9 simply cause it is sufficient for my current occupation ,faster and effective with all the tools ,c-hooks ,and my custom changes .

I don`t like X interface ,I don`t like a lot of things in it .

Being a beta tester once I told about that a lot .

But I suppose it is the only way .

It will become stable in couple of years , I will migrate .

I don`t like it`s current state ,but I don`t rant ,I understand the natural way of things .

 

Advice to Randle - better to be gentelman ,then God .

[Thad]

The crashes have been drastically cut down since MR1. I probably crash once a week, on average. That's not a big deal. The thing is, for us anyway, the fixes listed above usually work. Maybe there are issues with certain hardware configurations, but why? I just have to ask why do we need these fixes? What does system restore have to do with crashing MC? Why does saving a bitmap image with the file make it puke? Don't I won't a computer with great hardware acceleration, yet I have to turn it down, or off to eliminate problems? These problems are typical for a $99 program. I don't think we paid $99 for MC.

 

We continue to use MCX for every job we work on, and have done so since we got it. I don't agree with everything that Mark said. I just don't understand why all the tweaks are needed. I don't think anyone is making up these problems. I've created a new WCS before (multiple times) and when I click on OK, "MC must shut down." But now, I'm the idiot that doesn't know how to use the software.

 

Thad

[RandyN]

The new Dell's we just got are Precision 380's, 3.8 ghz, Quadro 1400's, 2 gigs ram, etc. I appreciate the advice Mike, butI refuse to turn my hardware acceleration off or to the first notch. I have Solidworks, Dynaform, and MC9 on my box too, and none of these crash when I move my mouse, and I don't want to dumb down my new higher end PC to baby X. I'll just use 9 for the time being when I get tired of loosing data to X, and hope the next release gets a little closer to a stable enviroment.

[Guest SAIPEM]

The problem is more than likely the video card and drivers.

 

Turn your hardware acceleration down to the first or second graduation.

You can also try reducing your color depth.

 

Forget about trying to save extremely large files directly to your network.

Set all your folder paths in the CONFIG to be on the local hard drive.

 

You ask why you should have to do these things.

 

The answer is because nothing and no one is perfect.

You can be damn sure that CNC Software has to deal as best it can with the inherent problems of the operating system itself. Some things are simply beyond its control.

 

If your network is running Netware, that's most of your problem.

 

CNC Software can't control load balancing and firewalls not to mention user rights on YOUR network.

All these things can cause problems.

 

If you try bringing your problems to CNC Software through your VAR, in a professional manner, you'll certainly get a better response than whining like a 7 year old.

 

I can assure you, CNC Software doesn't want anyone having problems with its product.

[Fig sign]

a QUOTE FROM DEVELOPER :

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If File/Save is crashing on you, our experience tells us that this is due to a graphics card issue which, surprisingly enough, arises when saving the 'thumbnail bitmap' with the MCX part. If you're plagued with File/Save crashes, go to Settings/Config/Files and turn off 'Include bitmap in file when saving'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.emastercam.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...t=019007#000012

[Rick46]

get your video card drivers directly from the manufacturer and make sure you are running the latest version of Direct X on your machine as well.. these will cause you problems in the video dept. as far as crashes go.. if you get video driver from microsoft your bound to have troubles..

[Fig sign]

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f you get video driver from microsoft your bound to have troubles..

 

~!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1000

Also -turn off Windows autoupdate without notification ,or Windows teh suXoR may change video driver for it`s own (known problem )

[Pete Rimkus from CNC Software Inc.]

This is not for Randle's benefit (let him go annoy UG's developers) but for the rest of you...

 

It's been discussed in at least one other post, but we've (finally) uncovered the cause of one of the File/Save crashes. If you've got geometry Groups in your part file and they contain non-visible entities (i.e. on non-visible levels), you're running the risk of crashing in File/Save. And the worst part is, you may not even know you have geometry Groups. File/Merge-Pattern automatically creates a Group each time the imported file is placed.

 

This problem (which was a PITA to track down since users couldn't send us a file which causes it to crash since it crashes in File/Save) has been corrected in MR2 (which we really are trying to release ASAP).

 

Oh...and Randle (if you're listening), this (apparently non-educated, non-talented) programmer would like to know your real name, SIM number, and company name so we can check with QC on the status of all the bugs you've sent us. Just email that info to [email protected] and tell 'em Pete sent you.

 

If haven't sent us any, then kindly STFU.

[Thad]

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If haven't sent us any, then kindly STFU.

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