X3

[Mick]

Thats what I was getting at James. Quite more than often, those that like to mouth off on a forum about a CAD/CAM system, generally haven't done anything to contribute to the improvement of the software, and instead, clog up boards with drivel.

 

I could be wrong, and I hope I am...

 

Until then, I will get back to some Fanboi Beta Testing...

[rdshear]

quote:

---

The logical tester is one who has the skills to push it to the limits and find it's weak spots. To be that skilled at something typically means you like working with it.

---

The other logical test group would be those new and green in mastercam. Those people tend to do things quite differently than the seasoned veterans. People who have used the software for years have developed habits that may circumvent known issues of the past and, as a result, never find that issue in the current beta. Whereas the newbies may find them because they don't have that past knowledge.

 

Their input may also provide a different logic on how to go about performing various tasks that would otherwise continue as the status quo simply because "we have always done it that way".

 

I don't consider myself an old timer nor do I consider myself a newbie. I've been using Mastercam for a little over 2 years now. I know I still have a lot to learn though as it is a never ending process.

 

Personally, I would love to be a beta tester. My company will not allow the beta program however, they are afraid it would effect productivity.

 

JMTC

 

Rick

[Thee Starry™]

Still curious what the answer is...... How will it get tested if not for the beta testers?

 

I don't believe I have ever used or bought a single thing in the world that didn't have a few issues, bugs, etc. From Software to steak knives. Auto cad to automobiles. They all have flaws. Do you jump up and down on the support forums for all other items in the land yelling at the testers of those products? Do you cry fanboi at the makers of your alarm clock that just isn't quite loud enough? Your cell phone that doesn't hold enough addresses? The tire manufacturer when your tires need to be balanced? No, of course not. No-one has time for all that crap. Yet every thing in the world is flawed. None can be perfect. But those things would be far worse if they weren't tested by people with experience and skill pertaining to the product.

 

There would be no products on the market of any type if it were not for testers. Nor would we see anything out there for sale if we just waited until the product was 100% flawless and perfect before it hits the market. It will never happen. No matter how loud you scream, no matter how much you complain, things will not be perfect for everyone. Simple as that.

 

In answer to your question. Yes. The blame for flaws can be attributed to the creators of Mastercam. It can also be placed on the beta testers. It can also be placed on you and I. We are all responsible for the flaws in it. You and I and all the other users of MC ask for enhancements, additions, newer and niftier functionality. Then the makers try to incorporate those into it to make us happy. Sometimes they work out, other times they will create a new issue. Then it is up to the beta testers to see if the designers fixed it all up or if there are flaws. Not always will those flaws be caught by either. Beta testers may not do things that you and I do when programming so they may not find the flaws. It might function wonderfully for them, then along come you and I and we do something differently and we discover the flaw. Is it the testers fault? Is it MC's fault or is it our fault? I would say we are all to blame. But none of these issues will get resolved ever if we don't take the time to explain them to our resellers or QC in a reasonable manner. Nor will they be resolved if we just stop having beta testers.

JM2C

[PeterM]

I have one observation here. It is common enough for someone to say "why don't you become a beta tester".

I have asked this question of my reseller many times over the years. Am I a beta tester?, no. Most recently I was told that if I wasn't doing swiss style programming that I was out of luck. Now I am not the most gifted programmer on this forum, but I have a dozen or so bugs with my name on them, I feel that I have done my part and am in fact a pretty good programmer. Rick Shear made a good argument for getting some green programmers on board as beta testers, but that will not happen because those newbees input is apparently not wanted.

[Guest]

OK, so now I REALLY don't get what all the griping is about.

 

 

Everyone wants to be a Beta Tester, fine you are.

 

 

If you were Beta testing and discovering many more bugs than are found in public release, what would you do? wring your hands and stomp your feet and cry. The point of Beta is to find and test. When you are doing this while doing production you also STILL have a job to get done as well.

 

You verify, document and submit.

 

After that, you need to get going, you don't just STOP using the software, you get around it.

 

THAT IS PART OF BEING A BETA TESTER.

 

I would imagine that seasoned users are chosen because they can get around issues and not have to put a Beta release down because they don;t like what it's doing and can't find a different way to ultimately get their job done.

 

It's a thankless thing that people do and they do it because they WANT to, no other reason or compensation and then they still get kicked around for it.

[calnet42]

quote:

---

Any pop up / window / dialog box which has a function of selecting geometry and gets in the way of selecting said geometry is just plain effing stupid software design. Period.

---

 

 

Isn't that a Windows "feature"? Pop-up windows / dialog boxes on a single monitor running an app. full-screen will always "get in the way" of something, won't they?

 

 

Where else CAN they pop-up?

Hmmm?

[Thee Starry™]

I can see both sides of the green vs experienced user as a beta tester. Heck, I like the idea of a mixed bunch testing.

Now, me personally, I have no desire or need to be a beta tester. Nor do I have the time.

JP is right though. It is a thankless job from what I can see.

[PeterM]

Well, I for one thank all you beta testers. You are the same folks who help out people in this forum, and kudos to you all.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I wonder if any of us have a reasonable understanding of how complex the code base for Mastercam is. I think a certain amount of respect for the programmers is due. Of course nothing is perfect (except perhaps the way I brought a tree down yesterday in a 30° gap between power lines ) but I think the guys a CNC are doing a pretty good job. When I first saw Mastercam X, I hated it. They listened to input from me and others, and X2 was better. Now they're listening to more input, and X3 is better yet. When you say "finish X2 before making X3", what exactly do you mean? X3 is nothing more than an attempt to take X2 and make it more like how the users want it. Some people ask for bug fixes, others ask for new features, and then they have to decide where to focus their efforts. When X3 comes out, try reading the full revision notes. As an example, here's from X2MR2SP1:

quote:

---

Defects

 

The following defects are resolved in Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1:

 

CNC ID

 

 

Description

Mill – 3D

 

 

 

31139

 

 

HST/Rest roughing operation yields no toolpath.

 

31218

 

 

Changing the toolpath type within the HST dialogs changes the clearance height as well.

 

31219

 

 

The default for axis control in all HST-style dialogs is 'Rotary axis positioning'.

 

31374

 

 

Wrong Transitions options are available for High Speed Radial toolpaths.

 

31413

 

 

The undercut Surface Finish Contour operation is not undercutting.

 

31716

 

 

Another Surface Finish Contour undercut issue - This file will not regenerate.

 

31752

 

 

The operation in the attached part file removes too much stock with the first pass.

Lathe

 

 

 

31566

 

 

Turning Posting off (ghosting the toolpath) seems to be corrupting the NC output.

 

31905

 

 

Crash when trying to edit a machine definition with solids.

Wire

 

 

 

30560

 

 

Mastercam is crashing upon regenerating the Contour Wirepath in the attached part file.

 

30561

 

 

Adding one chain alters other chains in a Contour Wirepath.

Design

 

 

 

31225

 

 

SilhouetteBoundary.dll is not working correctly.

 

31331

 

 

While doing an Xform Translate move with the Level Manager open, Mastercam will delete all geometry from a given level if you turn off the visible level with the Xform dialog open.

 

31495

 

 

Smart dimension causes notes to disappear.

 

31682

 

 

An AutoCursor Tangent condition is being detected when a line is being created from a point on an arc. It should only detect when approaching an arc. From arc tangent conditions are handled by the ribbon bar’s Tangent button.

 

31771

 

 

Create a Swept Surface on level 1 and a Surface of Revolution on level 2. Each of these surfaces was created using the same geometry which is on level 6. The Swept Surface has "wrinkles" in it, while the Surface of Revolution is smooth.

 

 

 

31870

 

 

In a new session of Mastercam, create a rectangle any size, anywhere. Open the Level Manager and keep it open, just move it to a location that allows you to access the rectangle. (This has no impact on the bug, it is for reference only.) Note that there are 4 entities reported in the Level Manager.

 

 

 

Choose Create, Drafting, Smart dimension. Dimension one side of the rectangle and place the dimension. While the dimension is still "live", click the Undo button. The dimension disappears.

 

Green check out of Smart dimension and the dimension reappears. Note there are still 4 entities in the Level Manager.

 

 

 

Delete the dimension. The level manager now reports 0 entities although the rectangle is still visible and a screen statistic reports 4 entities. If the display list is regenerated, the rectangle disappears and a screen statistic now reports 0 entities.

 

 

Backplot

 

 

 

03766

 

 

Mill Backplot - Conditional stops are not working. The black tick mark for the extra stop is added to the slider, but the backplot doesn't pause.

 

 

 

26575

 

 

Lathe Backplot - In top view, backplot does not show the tool insert when the options are set to have a shaded tool. If you dynamically rotate the view, you'll notice that the tool is there but the top face of it is not. Only the sides show so from the top view, it appears as if it is not there.

 

 

 

28746

 

 

Backplot dialog does not remember its expanded state if the user expands the dialog, then exits backplot and re-enters. Upon re-entering backplot, the dialog is collapsed but the blue arrows indicate otherwise.

 

30077

 

 

The backplot toggle buttons to display tool, holder, rapids, endpoints, and quick verify are not staying modal between sessions of Mastercam. The only one that appears to be modal now is the color codes button.

 

30367

 

 

Backplot is plotting rapid moves from home position regardless if home position or rapids are shown. In files with large home position distances, this causes a delay from the time backplot is run and the time the tool actually starts moving.

 

30978

 

 

Hold the 'S' key down while trying to go into backplot. Mastercam crashes.

 

31683

 

 

Lathe Backplot - Backplot no longer updates stock as it simulates.

Posts

 

 

 

30764

 

 

The "Coolant Event Labels" parameters (17070-17099) from the Coolant commands tab in the General Machine Parameters (Machine Definition) are not correct in X2 MR2.

 

31478

 

 

There is the difference in the effect of rotaxtyp between Version 9 and X. In Version 9, with rotaxtyp set to 2, the XYZ coordinates are mapped into the Top view even if the toolpath operation was created in a view other than Top.

 

In X, even with the same setting, the linear motions are mapped into the Top view properly but the circular motions are not.

 

 

General

 

 

 

30597

 

 

The Operations Manager title bar isn't displaying the correct translated text when it is docked. It looks fine when it's undocked.

 

30787

 

 

Undock the Operations Manager by dragging it anywhere on either monitor. Click the Solids tab. Now click Select. Once in "select" mode, immediately press [Esc]. The Operations Manager will gray out. Closing and reopening the manager will not reset it. If the user double-clicks the blue bar at the top to dock it again, Mastercam will crash. The crash only happens from its undocked location. If the user drags the blank Operations Manager back to its default docked position and double-clicks the blue title bar to return it, Mastercam won't crash.

 

 

 

This also happens in the Solids tab if the user clicks Regen all and then immediately presses [Esc] and will happen if the Operations Manager is docked as well. With the Operations Manager docked at the left side of the screen, if the user does this, the Operations Manager becomes unusable. The other tabs won't respond. Undocking the Operations Manager now will result in a blank Operations Manager. Closing Mastercam and restarting will reset it.

 

30830

 

 

The Mastercam Launcher crashes when run on a SIM that does not have a license to all products.

 

31044

 

 

If an undocked toolbar is occupying more than one row, the only buttons that will be displayed when it is docked are those in the first row.

 

31226

 

 

In Settings, Configuration, Toolpath Manager, if the user has "Prompt" checked under NC file and "first operation only" toggled as well as "last operation's NC file", Mastercam is no longer prompting the user. All of the other options for NC file name appear to work (MCX file name, Machine name, User defined, Toolpath group name).

 

31445

 

 

Rotary 4-axis does not work when using an Educational (NOT New Educational) SIM type.

 

31903

 

 

AutoSave gets kicked off by a timer. There is no check in the AutoSave to ensure that the system is in a top level function at the time so the state of the database cannot be guaranteed.

 

32008

 

 

If a Solid body is used as the stock in Stock Setup, and then the Machine definition is replaced, the solid is deleted.

 

32065

 

 

"Memory table item not found (15)", "Memory table item not found (16)", "Memory table item not found (19)" These 3 messages repeat 8 times when opening the file.

 

32083

 

 

Toolbars that are saved to a toolbar state and are in the vertical configuration when undocked are missing when that toolbar state is loaded.

 

32099

 

 

File name changed when saving changes.

 

32136

 

 

Crashing upon startup with Unhandled Exception errors. In the Config directory, there is a file named "MDM1120.PRM" that is usually 1Kb in size. After the customer's initial crash, this file becomes 0KB and Mastercam will no longer start until the user re-installs Mastercam.

 

 

 

32414

 

 

"Memory table item not found (31)" and the numbers progress to 36, 38, 40, and 42. The sequences repeat during the opening of the file and while Mastercam is idle.

---

[#Rekd™]

I thought VHS killed beta a while back...Just Kidding.

 

Many thanks to the people who do the beta testing and help out on this forum!

 

Only constructive criticism is welcome destructive criticism is not welcome or wanted on this type of forum!

 

If you have a problem with the way CNC software does buisness take it up with them and if you do not get satisfaction that way try another cad/cam program.

 

Remeber "don't shoot the messenger" (the beta testers).

 

Just my 2cents.

 

John

[Thee Starry™]

Nice job on the tree Matt. A thing of beauty if done properly.

 

I too say thanks to the Beta Testers, the designers of MC, all the programmers and those of you who find an issue and refer it to QC. You have all made my job much easier.

 

[Colin Gilchrist]

I personally think it is really funny that a few people are having such problems. Most of the time they have something set wrong in their settings, Mastercam X2 MR2 SP1 is the most stable version I've ever ran. What is it you are doing to make Mastercam so unstable? It has to be something... I get maybe one crash a week and I write some pretty involved parts. 300-400 Megs and 250+ toolpath operations.

 

I love it when people expect their current version to do everything...

 

X2 MR2 SP1 is as good as it gets for that version. You want something better? Pony up the money and buy X3. All I can say is that from the Beta testing I've done so far, it is worth the time and money.

 

If you don't like something about Mastercam, there are proper channels that John and James have mentioned to address your concerns.

 

Carmen, have you ever developed a program in Visual Studio? Do you have any idea of the blood sweat and tears that go into it?

[rdshear]

I hope people didn't take me wrong. I would love to be a beta tester. I understand the process. I wasn't saying there should not be experienced end users beta testing, just that there should be a mix of green newbies in the program as well. Being someone who has written code for computers, the novice computer users are generally the ones that find the bugs in the wierd places the experienced user would never find. I think that is mainly because experienced people don't follow the thought process the novice does. Of course, the novice will find "bugs" that aren't really bugs simply because they don't know how to use the software as well.

 

I have the utmost respect for the programmers at CNC as well as the beta testers.

 

I apologise if I mislead in my earlier statement.

 

 

Rick

[ducati]

On-Line definition

Computer Desktop Encyclopedia: beta test

A test of new or revised hardware or software that is performed by users at their facilities under normal operating conditions. Beta testing follows alpha testing. Vendors of packaged software often offer their customers the opportunity of beta testing new releases or versions, and the beta testing of elaborate products such as operating systems can take months

 

 

Me, I am a beta user. I only use the software part time. Every time I try to import a part, put a tool path to it... I get tested. The software has its limitaions... It cant teach me fast enough to over come my lack of experience. JK. However, with some on line training, books and this forum I make a little progress.

Newbies and old pros alike will add good ideas to the overall useability of the final product.

Thanks to all the Beta testers,Alpha testers, and designers of the software I can produce a toolpath for a machine that looks trick and impressing those who dont know the real secret.... It aint me.. its the software.

As always..I love this place and the various views...now If I could just get that pesky post for the software I didnt pay for then......

 

[Redfire427]

Quote:

 

Carmen, have you ever developed a program in Visual Studio? Do you have any idea of the blood sweat and tears that go into it?

 

Colin,

Honestly, I don't. I'm not downplaying the level of difficulty involved in developing software. A big round of applause and thanks go out to the beta testers and developers. My issue is how a new release of Mastercam can have so many elementary issues, bugs, problems. How on earth did these make it through the beta cycle? My other issue is how Mastercam doesn't take advantage of todays computing processors. As I have stated on so many similar threads like this one on this forum, is, what makes Mastercam tick. We have tried everything, with unsatisfactory results. I can't understand how Mastercam can be so far behind other cam systems of similar price. If Mastercam is the marketplace leader, then lead. I have high hopes for X3, but I fully expect it will be more of the same. I would love to be wrong on this one.

[kinglouie V]

quote:

---

Pony up the money and buy X3.

---

or better yet pony up for maintenance and get X3 included. *Must be done by a certain time frame.

 

quote:

---

I can't understand how Mastercam can be so far behind other cam systems of similar price.

---

I firmly disagree.

[Bruce Caulley]

quote:

---

Now they're listening to more input, and X3 is better yet. When you say "finish X2 before making X3", what exactly do you mean?

---

I understand his point. Pity the poor buggers that are stuck at X. It was bought and paid for, but is next to useless. Service packs to fix the bugs should not be dependent on maintenance. It should definitely not be good enough to say to someone that they need to go up a version to remedy stability issues or bugs that stop features of that version being used.

 

 

A couple more points:

 

Beta testing: I have just written to CNC and asked that I be taken off the programme so there is now a spot available. It must be noted that beta testers are not responsible for software development. Yes, once a bug is found it is recorded and a workaround is found until a fix is made. If a beta tester actually stopped every time a bug was found and didn't resume testing until it was fixed, then we would probably still be on V4. If CNC don't fix the bug, the beta testers are not to blame.

 

MC development in general:

 

I am just about to open my new workshop. If I was able to afford to employ another programmer from day one and they used a different package, I would probably have dropped Mastercam. There are a few reasons for this, but since I am familiar with it and will be wearing the programmers hat for a few months at least, I am sticking with what I currently know. All other new features aside (and there are many good ones) I still cannot believe that there is not a holder library for ALL tool paths.(just one annoyance of mine) I am also planning on having a multi-tasking machine by middle of next year. If MMT isn't up to speed by then I don't know what I will do.

 

Marketing driven:

 

I definitely would agree with anyone that stated that CNC marketing's drive for new sales is having too much influence on development direction. (some is required, but where to draw the line?) It may or may not be true, but I would need some convincing.

 

Bruce

[Thee Dragracer1951]

This is an interesting discussion...

I am also looking at a multi axis mill turn machine.

My machine tool dealer is also the local Esprit reseller.

Now, They know that I am quite happy using Mastercam, But they stopped by to show me Esprit. It is VERY impressive stuff.

I don't mean just the eye candy either. Thia is some very powerfull software.

Mastercam could be that good. I am also in the camp of lets fix what we are using daily before we come out with marketing stufff like Art. There are a lot of features I'd like to see in Lathe. I'm not alone there.

I just discovered that X2 does tabs. It was right there in plain sight...

I'm sure there are many other things that I am so caught up in my own way of doing things that I just never noticed before.

I know the High Speed toolpaths have issues. I REALLY wish those things would get addressed.

Here's a tiny little one...How come the list of recent commands does not include the edit/trim command after a save???? It's just a tiny little thing but it costs me a bunch of mouse clicks a day. Been that way since Ver X first came out.

Will X3 be better? You bet!! WouldI like some long standing things fixed? Yes.

My hats off to all of you guys that do the Beta testing, the software developers at CNC because it's you guys that allow me to make a living, grow my shop and not have to go work for someone else.

Now then....

Where's my X3???

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I've got it right here, but you can't have it!

[Thee Dragracer1951]

Aw Man....

[Thee Starry™]

quote:

---

I've got it right here, but you can't have it!

---

That's cuz Matt is testing my copy

[Mick]

Well, no reply from Anubis..

 

Sums it up really.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

EXACTLY... he's just a pot stirring tool.

[Lee.]

Thought I'd poke my nose in if thats ok.

 

It was my Topic.

 

I do not start topics very often and I'm quite annoyed it has gone this way.

 

I was just trying to get a little knowledge as to when we might expect the next release.

 

I am grateful that there are enough knowledgable people here to help me out from time to time.

 

I have been using Mastercam for about 9 years now, started with V7.

 

It has come leaps and bounds in 9 years.

 

I can't afford Solid works so i do everything with Mastercam, and I mean everything.

 

2D

3D

Blueprints with Winline from Mastercam

Toolpaths

Solids

Surfaces etc etc.

 

It gets it done for me

 

To all that are griping about mastercam, try and have input instead of bitching.

 

Most of us old timers have had changes made and improvements have come as a result of our efforts.

 

You don't have to be a Beta tester to have input, the guys at CNC are always in here helping out and they take things back to there guys and so on.

 

Ok, I feel better now.

 

Cheers.

[Storkman]

quote:

---

Where's my X3???

---

Not yet, waaaayyy too many bugs in it.

 

Examples

 

1: When I send it for coffee, it spills it every time.

 

2: I hold the print up to the monitor, no program comes out.

 

Nuff said, don't wanna get in trouble for releasing too much info.