Horizontal Programming your method?

[crazy^millman]

Horizontal programming for me since I started programming in Mastercam has been TOP WCS and Front view for B0 then rotate from there. I know we have had some long conversations about this method, but was curious how many still old school their programming making the programs where B0 looks like Top in Mastercam. Either by programming it like a Vertical or using Front WCS and Front C-plane for B0?

[Rob @ Target Machine]

I've always used Top WCS(axis of rotation) Front Tplane(B0), Right Tplane(B90),Back Tplane(B180), Left Tplane(B270), using Transform to generate my offsets for multiple parts, or Polar coordinates(from center of rotation) for complex one-offs.

[Joe788]

I've used TOP/TOP as B0 forever. Then I create new planes and just kept top as the WCS to generate the rotary moves. I really need to switch over to the TOP/FRONT style, so I can start fresh with the newest mpmaster horizontal post. I was actually thinking about using the MPMaster VMC post, and modding it to think it's an HMC.

[Colin Gilchrist]

There are people who swear by the Top/Top method because you can setup all your posts the same, and have the ability to move jobs from a horizontal to a verticle. I'm not one of those people though. I prefer the Top/Front method. I also hate being asked to move a program that I've optimized for a horizontal onto a vertical machine. I think that is a terrible idea. Some people think it's great...

[crazy^millman]

quote:

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I was actually thinking about using the MPMaster VMC post, and modding it to think it's an HMC.

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That is what you would have to do. Lie to Mastercam and program it like it is a Vertical.

 

Okay so if you have always programmed TOP WCS with FRONT Cplane as B0 and done it that way for 30 different companies. Would you go against what you know to do FRONT WCS with FRONT Cplane if you did not need to?

[Joe788]

I don't see a whole lot of reason to change from any method to any other method, so long as whatever you're doing works.

 

In my case, I'll probably change to TOP>FRONT on my HMC stuff because of the benefit of being able to use the newest mp master. If they hadn't changed the way it worked, I likely wouldn't ever change from TOP>TOP.

 

Who's wanting you to do front>front?

[crazy^millman]

A customer and I want to keep customers happy.

 

I think I will just do it the way I am use to. I will then save the program the way I am use to. I will save a copy then change it using edit common parameters then regen and send the customer that. They have so many programs already done this way changing now would be a big problem for them.

 

[ 06-13-2010, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Crazy^Millman ]

[Rob @ Target Machine]

I'm going through something similar where I work, I've been forced to program for the last 2 years in a way that is against everything I've been taught. I obliged them and warned that they would soon see things my way.

 

I've always worked a certain way and counted on my work habits to keep me out of trouble. Reluctantly, I did what they asked of me and watched as they painted themselves into the corner.

 

They soon came to me for some advice, I gave it and low and behold, they are now opening their eyes and are willing to listen to my 20+ years of experience.

 

I believe in using "Best Practices" as a rule, and opted to go against my better judgement to keep them happy, knowing what problems lie ahead for them.

 

The end result is that after all is said and done, we are transitioning to my methods.

 

You could try to educate them on the reasons for using your method, why it's better, and assure them that the end result is the same.

 

Maybe they'll bite, maybe not. IMHO its worth a shot. The worst they could do is say no.

 

Maybe they have their own reasons for "doing something wrong" IDK.

[Rob @ Target Machine]

Ron - If the issue here is that they are using top/top instead of top/front, the solution may be simple.

 

A post mod or different md/cd can be used for each method without the need to change anything other than the md/cd.

 

As I recall, the top/top method posts out fine with rot_on_x$ variable set to 0(Vertical mill) and the top/front method does the same with it set to 1(Horizontal mill).

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's worth looking into.

[Tim Johnson]

Top/Front here...

[Jayson Kramer]

Ron, I do it the same way as you and this the way I teach it and have always...

[crazy^millman]

Here is one of those problems. Using multiple machine groups and difference WCS. I in past would get crazy errors where Mastercam would pop in new machine and different groups. Just happened again.

 

Mastercam took 4 separate groups inside of one machine and now divided them into 4 different machine groups and took the machine I was using and replaced it with generic Mill. It will take 30 minutes to fix all this.

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

TOP WCS and Front view for B0 then rotate from there. This is my method. We only do single parts at a time so everything is programmed from centerline with one fixture offset.

[MotorCityMinion]

"I believe in using "Best Practices" as a rule, and opted to go against my better judgment to keep them happy, knowing what problems lie ahead for them. The end result is that after all is said and done, we are transitioning to my methods."

 

Old habits are hard to break. I watch most of the people here dump all their files into that one NC directory, then spend a lot of time sorting through the files later. A few keystrokes to make a customer folder, then a part number sub folder saves so much time later.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I used to be "Old School". Top/Top, then creating new planes for each rotation. Once X came out, I pretty much switched to the Top/Front method. Personally I don't care anymore. I have Posts and MD/CD's for both methods. I guess Top/Top requires more work but as far as a best practices, I think I'd have to admit "New School" is better if you want ot take advantage of more software features.

 

JMHO

[Scott Lundin Shopware Inc.]

Top WCS, with Front Tplane for B0 degrees for a HMC. Thats the way we teach it here.

[gcode]

I use an standard mpmaster (WCS Top B0=Front)

for 4X work and a modified mpgen5X post

(WCS Top, Top = B0 C0) for 5X double rotary work.

[Mick]

Ron, I've struck the same error you have recently. And it is damn annoying.

 

I had a MCX file with 120 operations. Multiple WCS's (about 12 of them), for different B indexes.

 

I hadn't opened the file for a week or so, and when I opened it, each operation group (I had about 24 operation groups) had been turned into a Machine group, and used a generic machine definition. It took me around an hour to fix, but recreating toolpath groups, and moving the operations into the new groups. Real frustrating

 

I programme using the Top WCS, and Front, Right, Back, and Left for B0, B90, B180, B270 respectively. We use G54 for B0, G55 for B90, G56 for B180 and G57 for B270. Then we use from G58 onwards for any other indexes (that is for machining a large part).

 

We have one Toyoda FH100B, a Toyoda FMS with two FA1050's, two Mori Seiki MH63/633's and a Mori Seiki MH40 and we use the same approach for all of them. It works really well

[Larry Metzler]

TOP WCS, Front view for BO, rotate from here.

It would take a lot to make me change now.

 

“If its not broken, don’t fix it!

[Tony35]

top/front for me here

[BBprecise]

Top/Front, foolish do it any other way IMHO. More often then not if a job is sched. for a HMC it stays there (especially on our 50 taper Okuma), so that way I can prog. to the machines capabilities (no way a 40 taper VMC (all our VMC's are 40 taper) can run the same prg as a 50 tap HMC). We do have a 40 taper HMC, and if thats where a job is scheduled to run thats where it's programmed to. If a job is switched to the VMC, I just use Cimco to rotate the prg. and make any format changes (usually takes 10 min. or so) necessary after the prg. is completed. I may do the other op's for a VMC, but only if scheduling says it will stay there, if not HMC it is.

 

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Bryan Johnson]

top/top

xyz=xyz

it just feels right.

[Tim Johnson]

quote:

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Mastercam took 4 separate groups inside of one machine and now divided them into 4 different machine groups and took the machine I was using and replaced it with generic Mill. It will take 30 minutes to fix all this.

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I get that about once every two to four weeks. I thought it was something I was doing but apparently that's not the case.

[MIL-TFP-41]

top/front. As far as moving programs to one of our VMC's....90% of what we run on the horizontal gets positioned at many different angles....would not work out very good on a VMC.

 

Back in V9...we used to do top/top

[john316]

.

 

I use the Top/Front because that's how MpMaster is set up.

 

quote:

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Mastercam took 4 separate groups inside of one machine and now divided them into 4 different machine groups and took the machine I was using and replaced it with generic Mill. It will take 30 minutes to fix all this.

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I get that once in a while too and it's very irritating. I've thought about complaining to Mastercam but I figure they have to already know it's doing that.

 

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