O/T California recall

[Mark Lovelace]

James, do you approve of consensual oral or anal sex between a man and a woman? It certainly is not a procreative act, so in that respect it is no different from the same act between two men. How about xxxxion? There's only one gender involved; is it a sin? If that's the case, 99.99% of all men are going to hell. What about a 'straight' couple that decides to do a FFM threesome? That's gotta be okay, right, 'cause it's every guy's dream. And a MMF threesome is really no different, it's just a matter of personal preference, right?

 

Similarly, do you have a problem with two men or women being 'life-partners' if they do not have sex? If two men are business partners, they can create a legal agreement in case of the eventuality that one of them should die or be unable to work. Are they gay? So what about two men or two women who own real estate together? That's a legit business, isn't it? What if they also live together in one of the houses? Does that change everything? Or is it only if they live together and have sex? If that's the case, then what business is it of yours?

 

Lemme see, as a conservative you want less government, right? You want the government to leave business alone, leave gun owners alone, and leave churches alone, right? But what two people do in the privacy of their own home should somehow limit their rights as a couple? I'm sorry, but I cannot see any way to define the argument that does not come down to a personnal decision regarding private behaviour. It's not my business, it's not your business, and it's not the government's business to decide who is or isn't a legitimate couple.

[Toolfab]

Well once again Jack you have stirred the pot.

 

Every one is entitled to ther opion, and I have mine.

 

 

So back to Grey, Jack did you get the answer that you were looking for?

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...Lemme see, as a conservative you want less government, right? You want the government to leave business alone, leave gun owners alone,...

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Exactly, the Government (be it City or otherwise) should not be threatening businesses to pay benefits to "partners" (That are not even legally recognized) or we will not do business with you. How right is that? What people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is certainly their own business. The founding fathers would certainly agree. However, when that behaviour is brought out in public, and forced to be accepted, I have a problem with that. Which is my whole problem. I don't have any personal objections to anything that consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes. I will say this though, the family is the bedrock of a civilization, when that unit crumbles, so too does society. Many empires have fallen over time due to the transgressions of it's people. I don't want that to happen to our Country.

[Charles Davis]

I gotta say something here....

 

I know a gay couple with a child. They are about the most caring, loving family I've ever met. In fact, I'm jelous: I'd have given anything to grow up in such a caring, nurturing environment.

 

Is is optimal? Maybe not. But it's a lot better than most "normal" families I see.

 

Leave the gay people out of this. This recall has nothing to do with that. It's all about the economy and corrupt politicians.

[gcode]

Lets move on to something a little less

flameable.

 

Workers Comp costs

Last year Gray Davis signed a Workers Comp bill

he vetoed 3 time before his reelection.

It does nothing for injured workers, but lines the pockets of trial lawyers and medical clinics.

A cut finger that used to take 6 stiches and the afternoon off, now turns into a couple of months of disability and therapy 3 times a week.

If the injured worker is so inclined it becomes a lawsuit.

The shop I work at has seen its premiums go from

$30k per year to $110K per year in 9 months.

Premiums for small machine shops were about

$2 per $100 of payroll last summer. Now they are

$8 to 10 per 100.

Insurance payments to workers comp lawyers are up $250 million this year and its only August.

A lot of small shops are going completely off the books, laying off their workers, letting them collect umemployement and paying them cash under the table. Most small shops treat minor injuries

off the books to keep their claims down

Davis has done more damage to CA's economy with one signature that the economic slowdown has done in 2 years.

[ssibiski]

+1 Gcode

 

quote:

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Most small shops treat minor injuries

off the books to keep their claims down

Davis has done more damage to CA's economy with one signature that the economic slowdown has done in 2 years.

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This is very true. I have a few freinds working in small shops that have had to do just this. Not because they want to screw their employees but because they have to do this to keep the doors open. Even my company has been hit with this. We have watched our injurys go down every year, but the cost just continues to rise.

 

I don't have enough information to know who I will vote for yet, but I hope there is someone I can choose to vote for and not have to go with the least of evils this time around.

 

Steve S.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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A lot of small shops are going completely off the books, laying off their workers, letting them collect umemployement and paying them cash under the table. Most small shops treat minor injuries

off the books to keep their claims down

Davis has done more damage to CA's economy with one signature that the economic slowdown has done in 2 years.

---

Sad, just sad. I shudder to think what my company pays. We have over 250 employees just in our faclility alone.

[A-ron1286490684]

The EPA first took our acetone, then our solvent, and now we cannot even use Isopropyl Alcohol on our parts.

 

We've since found that a baby Condor's down mops up coolant real nice. Well, right behind Spotted Owl feathers and baby Harp Seal fur.

 

[ 08-19-2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: A-ron ]

[Charles Davis]

A+ on the workers comp issue. In fact, California has the highest rates and the lowest benefits of any state, so it's not even like the workers are getting anything for the high rates.

 

The problem with Gray is like any career politician; they've never signed the front of any check, just the back, so they have no concept of money.

 

Besides, they think all the money is their's and it's up to them to decide how much you get to keep, assuming only they are smart enough to spend your money.

[Slixmix]

quote:

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The problem with Gray is like any career politician; they've never signed the front of any check, just the back, so they have no concept of money.

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If I recall, wasn't his name the one signed on the front our State tax checks when he was controller?

[A-ron1286490684]

quote:

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If I recall, wasn't his name the one signed on the front our State tax checks when he was controller?

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Even if that were the case it would've been our money he was refunding from overpayment of taxes. And does anybody remember when he cut the registration fees? Instead of just having the DMV send out the adjusted amount. He set it up so you had to pay and then receive what amounted to a political promotional "aren't you proud of me" letter with the refund. Was anybody "concerned" about the cost of this special one time refund check and self-aggrandizing letter?

 

Hey, ya' think he'll do the same when he triples the vehicle tax?

 

It would read...

 

Thanks to my corrupt staff, political mismanagement, ineptitude, malfeasance, quid pro quo's for special interests, and general stupidity you get to pay triple the amount on your vehicle taxes. Aren’t you glad you voted with blind allegiance for Grey Davis?!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

"Don't Steal, The Government Hates Competition."

 

Bumper sticker seen somewhere.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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We've since found that a baby Condor's down mops up coolant real nice. Well, right behind Spotted Owl feathers and baby Harp Seal fur.

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Garibaldi (the state fish with a $500 fine if you touch one) oil makes for excellent tapping fluid.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Garibaldi (the state fish with a $500 fine if you touch one) oil makes for excellent tapping fluid.

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Yes, but you can only extract it while the fish is alive, or it's no good.

 

Ever see that Far Side calendar? The episode with the 2 giant fish fishing (humaning?) on the bridge, reeling up a human on his pole. One fish looks at the other and says; "They only wiggle like that 'cuz they're confused"

 

'Rekd

[Ripper3785]

quote:

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Ever see that Far Side calendar? The episode with the 2 giant fish fishing (humaning?) on the bridge, reeling up a human on his pole. One fish looks at the other and says; "They only wiggle like that 'cuz they're confused"

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If you are in the right mood, that can be extremely funny.. I am in that mood..

 

Ripper teh long stressful hawaiian bright sunny day

[Rekd™]

Ripper, you're out of line, mister!

 

No bad days on the island, dammit!

 

'Rekd teh wishing he was back at that little bar on the north shore, sipping a cold rum-punch

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

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'Rekd teh wishing he was back at that little bar on the north shore,

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Is that the north shore of the big Island?

I almost drowned there back in '79. Man those 20' waves are awesum. Tumbled me across the lava rocks like a rag doll.

 

I liked it better on Maui......spent a couple of months there "dirt-baggin" it. Hana was so cool.

Saw Linberg's grave and signed my name in the book that was in that gazibo.

 

 

Murlin teh Aloha

 

[ 08-19-2003, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Murlin ]

[Ripper3785]

"North Shore" in terms of hawaii 99% of the time refers to the North Shore of Oahu.. Back in 79, huh? I bet you're familiar with the phrase "stupid haole"..

 

BTW, I was 1 in 79.

 

 

[ 08-19-2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Ripper3785 ]

[Dan_AKA_ROY]

My sister's vacationing in Hawaii right now.

 

Hmmm. I wanna retire there. Paradise. Someplace to spend my fortune. All those millions of dollars I have would be put to good use.

 

Somebody please wake me up... As the song goes 'If I had a million dollars'.

 

Nice thread. The guys in here are right... keep the gays in their bedrooms, don't force that crap on our kids!! Makes you long for the 50's again. Didn't things seem to be more normal back then? The good ole' days, when boys were boys and girls were girls. Nowadays, it sure gets confusing.

 

Charles Davis is right. I was lukewarm on Arnold, but he makes some sense. Maybe it's time for the Terminator to straighten things out. California has big problems...I thought Taft [Ohio's Gov] was bad...WTF

 

Terrorist attacks everywhere, perverted sex, drugs, the broken family unit especially among our black population - our black kids growing up without their fathers - our country our world needs to get their act together. Lord, we need your help. Too much finger pointing, not enough action. Political correctness B.S. Save the whales - that's cool, but what about Save our kids? The crap they see on TV, etc. Wake up, America. We're a great country, time to clean house!!! Oops, sorry, I don't want to offend anybody. We need to swallow a big Chill Pill.

 

America has enough enemies yearning to kill us, lets not do it for them!

 

James is historically correct. Great civilizations have crumbled from within.

 

That's the beauty of sports. Diverts us from reality.

 

I'm tired. Time to hit the hay.

[Jack Mitchell]

I only posed the question since nobody else had brought this up.

 

Arnold, to me, has charisma, he’s a gentleman, and a well liked actor. Why he desires to be governor remains questionable. Why anybody wants the position is really beyond me; for gaining today’s popular vote will lead to tomorrow’s brow beating.

 

Whoever takes the prize must delivery a bitter pill to the good people of California! Fiscal responsibility is what is required to stop the financial bleeding; a very hard hit through taxation is the only method available to reverse the damage of the current and previous administrations – this is truly a shame - though a realistic fix to an amazing state.

 

I know that some people sport an attitude concerning this subject, but I do indeed see this as an insightful debate and wish Californians well for a difficult and respectable fight for their future.

 

 

Regards, Jack

 

[ 08-20-2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Jack Mitchell ]

[Mark Lovelace]

Oh, sure, Jack, you're just laughing yer xxxx off at us whacko Californians, aren't you.

 

I just can't see what Arnold has to offer that makes him the presumptive 'man to beat'. If it's just straight name recognition, then we can look forward to a future contest between Coke and Pepsi.

 

Arnold hasn't articulated any positions, other than to say that he wants to be "the Governor for all of California, not just republicans or democrats." Well, that's just peachy. As you can see from reading through this thread, there really aren't any significant differences of opinion amongst the constituents of this state, so I'm sure he'll have great luck making everybody happy. Maybe he can throw in free beer while he's at it.

 

Bear in mind, too, that Arnold met with Ken Lay of Enron during the height of the energy crisis. He hasn't disclosed the purpose of the meeting, or what was discussed, but you can bet that he'll be just as much in bed with the special interests as any one else. He also met with junk-bond king Michael Miliken at the same time. And his economic advisor, Warren Buffet, has already stated that California's taxes are too low. Sounds like a real revolution to me.

 

"stupid haole"

Isn't there a word that's supposed to go in the middle there? Seems to me it begins with an 'F'.

[Hardmill]

quote:

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Lord, we need your help.

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Absolutely right Dan. I told myself to stay out

of this one(i hate when i dont listen ).

But the bottom line is everyone forgets how this

great country was founded. But until we do, (and

for sure we won't) things will to get progressively

worse. I pray daily giving it all to him. He

knows whats best. Not trying to provoke anyone

just a little venting.

 

PEACE ALL

[CR@seyer]

quote:

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But what two people do in the privacy of their own home should somehow limit their rights as a couple? I'm sorry, but I cannot see any way to define the argument that does not come down to a personnal decision regarding private behaviour.

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I can’t shoot heroin, snort cocaine, grow marijuana, xxxxe myself, print currency, build machine guns, pipe bombs or nuclear warheads in the privacy of my own home either. Hell I can’t even have a 5-gallon flush toilet in the john. Some of us conservatives feel that the issue isn’t about gay or straight; it is about states rights, and the constant assault on state sovereignty that we are undergoing from the big guys in D.C. every day.

 

Clayton

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

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"stupid haole"..

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Yup....got called that alot while I was there.

 

On Maui, A bunch of us were under the Banyan tree playing our guitars and drinking beers( a NO NO) and the cops came buy and told us they were going to shoot all us haole's and leave us in the cain fields.....

 

A couple nights before, I slept too close to the water and the tide came in.

 

Woke up and the waves were crashing at my feet.

 

My little bag with my ID, and everything I owned, washed out to the sea.

 

I got a job as a dishwasher in Lahina at that Itallian restuarant and got me a ticket home

 

The day before I left, I went snorkeling in front of the Shores Hotel. There was alot of debris in the water and could only see about 2 foot.

 

Got this strange feeling and that's when it happened. A large shadowy figure glided by.

Saw the white tip through the mirk and needless to say I got the hell out of the water as soon as I could

 

Ya.......what an adventure I had on the Islands.

 

I am going back someday....

 

 

Murlin

[A-ron1286490684]

Haole - A derogatory term in Hawaii for a person with pale skin.

 

If I had it to do over I would ask to come back as an opihi man. What a life.

 

And Mark I'm also waiting for Arnold to articulate some positions. Namesake alone and an ® doesn't automatically get my vote.

 

Jack this can be done without raising taxes. It was estimated that 6 percent in budget cuts would eliminate the deficit and the need to raise the vehicle taxes. As Governor you could tell all the state and local department heads to cut by 6 percent or you will put it to a ballot initiative and ask the people to choose higher taxes or budget cuts. (Just watch out for the bleeding' heart sob story commercials.) We've all been struggling here -not just special interests.