O/T California recall

[Charles Davis]

The problem with Gray Davis is that he purposely hid the extent of the state fiscal situation before the election; he lied.

 

Next, he sold out the public interest for massive campaign contributions so he could smear his opponents and spread his blatant lies.

 

Having spent 50 million getting elected we recalled him for uder a million.

 

The message to the politicians is this; you may be able to buy and lie your way into office, but if you betray the public trust, we can still "Terminate" you.

 

This should send shock waves through the politicians who think that the only end game is winning the election.

 

In all the time this recall has been in the CA constitution, this is the only time it's been successfully used.

 

The recall will cost every Californian $1. The debt racked up under Gray Davis adds up to (I believe this number is right) $1,500 per person. So we're spending a buck to save a $1,500 problem.

 

There are great days ahead for this State once we get competent, honest government back at the state level. Besides, there is a scummy rock somewhere waiting for Gray to crawl back under.

[Mark Lovelace]

I was born and raised in California and have lived here all of my life. I have become quite used to my state being joked about as being 'the land of fruits and nuts', and worse. But when I heard that Schwarezennegger was running for Governor, that was the first time in my life that I ever felt truly, deeply embarrassed to be a Californian.

 

We now live in a country where the President is sold on toy store shelves as an action figure, and where another action figure is being sold as our next Governor. Our ‘leaders’ are now nothing more than cartoon icons, spouting meaningless catch-phrases like “Hasta la vista, baby”, and “Bring it on”. Perhaps we can look forward to seeing Mickey Mouse, Madonna, or Joe Montana running for office soon.

 

Meanwhile, all of the noise about the recall obscures the fact that the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to get poorer. The leaders of both the Republican and Democratic parties have a lot more in common with each other and with Ken Lay than they have with you and I. Both parties put us where we are today, and you can bet that the big money on both sides profited from the energy crisis. It's only the little guys like us that got screwed.

 

Had Davis stepped down before the recall petition was certified, then Bustamante would have assumed the Governorship, and the recall petition would have been invalidated. Since Davis didn't (which a lot of Democrats wished he would have), and since Davis could not add his name to the list of candidates (though he tried to), Bustamante threw his hat in the ring at the last minute. This gives those who oppose the recall a fallback position. Even if you vote against the recall, you can still vote for a candidate you would like, in the event the recall succeeds.

 

Because of the number of names on the ballot and the competition within individual parties, it is possible, and perhaps even likely, that our next governor will be elected by a single-digit percentage of the voters. And since only about 30 percent of eligible voters are likely to turn out, it is possible that the winner could represent as little as 1 percent of the state's population. And this person will unseat Gray Davis who, like him or not (and I don't), was elected by a solid majority of the voters.

 

It's a strange kind of democracy when neither our Governor nor our President is elected by a majority of voters.

 

As for me, I have no idea who I will vote for. I might have voted for Riordan (yes, a republican), had he run, but I won't vote for McClintock, Simon, or Ahnold. Bustamante is good on some issues that are important to me, but poor on others, and I doubt that Camejo or Huffington have a chance. All I know is that my vote won't reflect blind allegiance to any party.

 

Oh, and Jimmy (Wakeford), if you wanna talk timber, talk to the guy from redwood country (me).

[Mark Lovelace]

...he sold out the public interest for massive campaign contributions...

 

Charles, this is precisely my biggest gripe about Davis. Unfortunately, you can be absolutely sure that whoever takes his place will do the very same thing, regardless of party affiliation.

[iowajim62]

quote:

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It's a strange kind of democracy when neither our Governor nor our President is elected by a majority of voters.

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Lest we forget our American Govenrment classes.

The President is elected by the Electoral College not by popular vote.

 

Jimmy teh paid attention in Government class.

Remember RIF stands for Reading is Fundamental.

But comprehension is mandatory.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Ripper

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I have not been home yet, but I wil be soon.

 

Mark, are you aware that Bustamonte was a member of MECHA(sp?) while he was in College? MECHA is the Mexican equivalent of the KKK (IMO). One of their tennets is to "Take back from the US what was taken from Mexico." in a nutshell, i.e. California, Arizona, Texas, and New Mexico. Pretty disturbing if you ask me. But is anyone talking about that in the press? I don't think so. Mr. Bustamonte I believe has racist leanings because of something I've heard come from his own mouth, and no I did not take it out of context either. He referred to a particular group in our country by a very derogatory term, AND IN THEIR PRESENCE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. I'm still not sold on any particular candidate. I need to do some more homework. I know that Bustamonte is out, Gary Coleman is out, the Porn Star is out, Larry Flint is out and so are a few others, oh and so is Arnold. Much work to do between now and then (election day)

[Ripper3785]

iowajim, umm.. what he is saying is that the president is NOT voted into office by a majority of voters..(i.e. IS voted in by the electoral college)

 

Or did I misinterpret your post?

 

Ripper teh Comprehension IS essential.

[godzillia_dude]

+1 Charles

 

The only thing that I would add is that it is very discouraging when so many special intrest groups (ACLU, ex.) are trying to hijack the constitution of California by saying that the method of voting (punch cards) in a few counties is unacceptable and/or that minorities will be adversly affected because they won't have time to look over the candidates. Personally, if someone, regardless of ethnic background, can't take one or two evenings to review the ballot to vote on the issues and for the leader of one of the most powerful individuals in the nation , then I DON'T want them voting . My biggest concern is that people will vote for a name and not for vision and goals. I am also worried about what is being batted around regarding property taxes and vehicle registration fees. Democrat or Republican, I feel as though gouging the populas more to continue finacial mismanagement is wrong.

[cg777]

i vote for a Revolution

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Lest we forget our American Govenrment classes.

The President is elected by the Electoral College not by popular vote.

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VERY important fact to remember.

 

Oh, one more thing, more people voted against Davis than for him, and his majority was a solid 5%, if you want to call that solid. You know, Simon ran (arguably)the most pittiful campaign in US history for a Governorship, spent 10:1 more money than Simon and still only won by 5%. I don't believe a ringing endorsement was given this past election.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Ripper, that is correct. You and I do not ACTUALLY vote for the President. You vote for Electors which in turn vote for the President.

 

quote:

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ACLU

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American Criminal Liberties Union.

 

[ 08-18-2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[iowajim62]

Ripper,

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iowajim, umm.. what he is saying is that the president is NOT voted into office by a majority of voters..(i.e. IS voted in by the electoral college)

 

Or did I misinterpret your post?

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Yeah I know he's not voted in by popular vote.

And I would think that most Americans would already know this. That is why I pointed it out for Mr. Lovelace since he spoke of a strange democracy.

 

Strange Democracy ? It's been this way over 200 yrs. Anyway I just gotta get the stirstick in the pot and give it a couple turns. All in fun

[A-ron1286490684]

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All I know is that my vote won't reflect blind allegiance to any party.

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I hope not. That’s what got us in this predicament in the first place.

 

I vote for the lesser of two evils and that is the drawback of a two party system, why would I vote for the party that thinks I’m too pale to deserve a scholarship or even the same admission standards as anybody else? Call it blind allegiance I call it Objectivism. Real decisions based on real life experiences.

 

I would vote Libertarian if I thought they had a chance. F@%k all this hand out crap! And these idiots who sit on their duffs and collect welfare are dumb enough to complain ‘cause they aren’t going to get a tax refund check!! Give me a FREAKIN' break!

 

quote:

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It's a strange kind of democracy when neither our Governor nor our President is elected by a majority of voters.

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Like it or not those were the rules before we agreed to play the game.

 

Talk about a strange kind of democracy, how ‘bout prop 187 voted in by a majority of Californians turned over by the Liberal, (yes I’ve single handedly turned this word into a pejorative), Judges. Those weren’t the rules going into the deal! Now there’s another example of basic civics being ignored. The Legislative branch writes the laws- Judicial branch interprets them. That’s how I understood it -but I guess if it gives them a warm feeling inside to go to bed thinking they know better than the majority then who needs to vote anymore right?

[Mark Lovelace]

James,

 

I don't have numbers in front of me, so if you have some documentation, I'll defer to that. Otherwise, my recollection is that Davis had a majority despite the 4% that Camejo recieved. I agree that 5% is not a landslide, but a majority beats a plurality any time.

 

As for Bustamante, I'd heard of his racist comment, but not his college activities. Thanks for the info. Like I said, there are some things I like about the guy, but some things I definitely don't. Racism is why I won't vote for Simon or McClintock, either. Whether it's Mexicans trying to 'take back' land that was never theirs to lose (or ours to win), or children of immigrants trying to keep out other immigrants, xenophobia is wrong. Racism is racism, regardless of one's own race.

[Scott Bond]

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All I know is that my vote won't reflect blind allegiance to any party.

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I also won't be voteing for anyone how's actual name starts with the word---- DA!

[Rick Damiani]

Gray Davis got 47.2% of the statewide vote in the '02 election. Convicted felon Bill Simon got 42.4% of the vote in that election.

[CR@seyer]

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Do I dare spell it out that the Republicans engineered our state’s energy crisis that bleed most of the budget. Dick Cheney & Enron anyone?

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HUH??

 

Check the Bill of Rights. Each of the Sovereign States is responsible for its own governing. California’s energy crisis is California’s problem. If it is the 5th largest economy in the world then it should be more than capable of maintaining and improving its own energy infrastructure. In stead the world’s 5th largest economy is propped up by its bordering states.

 

Over 50% of the nations electricity is produced by coal burning plants.

About 20% by nuclear plants

About 15% by hydro electric plants

And about 10% from oil burning plants

The remainder is produced by windmills, solar, geothermal, and other enviro-friendly approaches.

 

Historically, the majority of California’s efforts toward energy infrastructure improvements have been confined to that last 5%.

 

It is easy to blame special interest for the energy crisis that confronts California and, as exemplified by last week’s blackout, the entire country. But if the energy industry were that special interest, then the country would be rife with electrical generation plants and we would have the lines upgraded and replaced more often than necessary. The last thing the energy supplier’s want is an energy crisis that will bolster the arguments of those who would force us into alternative energy prematurely. Indeed the special interest that is responsible for our energy crisis is the anti progress, anti improvement, anti energy, retrograde environmentalist left. This special interest has found a perfect home in California, as it is a politically friendly environment.

 

The environmentalist left tends to put the cart before the horse. They could maintain and improve existing power facilities while developing more environmentally friendly systems; thus maintaining supply and avoiding any potential crisis. In stead they neglect the current foundation of their energy production and focus myopically on their agenda. This inevitably results in the collapse of the current system. While this collapse may make the environmentalist platform seem prophetic, it will impact sharply on the economy as a whole leading to high deficits and limited resources that can be expended on said agenda.

 

The current political environment in the U.S. is prime for alternative energy sources, at least until we hear what it will cost. So it is the responsibility of the advocates of these alternative energy sources to create an economical alternative rather than just an alternative.

 

Common sense dictates that putting the people to work improving infrastructure will do more good than harm to our economy, particularly in California were I hear there are a lot of transsexual cross dressing drag queens looking for jobs. However, I would like to respectfully request that those drag queens that become linemen wear a pant suit rather than a skirt when climbing utility poles.

 

California was called the land of fruits and nuts long before this recall and it will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

 

Clayton

[crazy^millman]

Ok just one thing to add to the whole thing it is only costing 66 million dollars to do this. I understand they guy did some bad thing and think he should get the boot but how able are the candaites going to be heard when they are over 150. I would just like to see the debate with all the people that are in this like Larry Flint, The dancing Guy, The short guy, The Famous guy, and etc.............

 

With the idea that some have of Calforina needs to be looked at I am from Florida and unless you come here and live and see how things are you need to get a clue before saying remarks to the fatc you have no idea about. I would only say there are all types of people in all places of the world and just because this state is going through this doesnt make it any better or worse than the others. I could wonder why a state hit with something so terrible less than 2 years ago was not ready to get the people off an island and have everything in complete dis-array. I am not bashing them just pointing out if we want to start analizing the problems of each state I am sure we can pick all to death with something.

 

Crazy Millman

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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am not bashing them just pointing out if we want to start analizing the problems of each state I am sure we can pick all to death with something.

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Unfortunately California has earned it reputation for being the Land of Friuts and Nuts. Than Franthithco (that's San Francisco with a lisp) has more butt pirates than just about anywhere on the planet. And they wonder why AIDS is so prevalent.... HMMMMMMMM, gee I wonder. A little too much in through the out door if you ask me. Matter of fact if you wnat to do business in and with the city odf San Francisco, your company's insurance has to 1) provide gender changing surgery if need be, 2) provide benefits to your "partner", and a host of other goodies for the xxxxites of the city. EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!! Man, it's disgusting here. West Hollywood runs a close second. Police there must not disrespect homosexuality in any way or risk being dismissed, no matter whayt your values are.

 

Could Grey be gay? Hmmm, the world may never know. You know what, people without kids are not even fit for high office as far as I'm concerned. He needs the boot!

[CR@seyer]

James:

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Could Grey be gay? Hmmm, the world may never know. You know what, people without kids are not even fit for high office as far as I'm concerned. He needs the boot!

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Considering the fact that while his state is spiraling downward in decay, he signed a bill that protects transsexuals, cross dressers and drag queens from unfair hiring practices it does make one wonder. Sexual orientation aside you would at least question his priorities, moreover, question the priorities of the state legislature.

 

Millman:

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Ok just one thing to add to the whole thing it is only costing 66 million dollars to do this.

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How many hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost in the name of democracy? 66 mill is comparatively cheep. The people of California are simply using the democratically instituted, constitutional process for the removal of their governor. Any attempt to stop the citizens from this endeavor would be anti democratic, and an affront to the constitution of that state. If it seems silly, cumbersome or flawed, it may well be, but it is the system that they have and they have the right to use it. Once this is over the people can decide to amend their constitution to prevent a similar debacle from repeating. Fair enough?

 

It’s a strange world we live in were a guy like Tim Robins can snap his fingers and gain an audience with the national press corp. Then use the opportunity reserved only for people of his societal status to decry talk radio as destroying free speech. Even though talk radio is the one medium that the individual citizen can use to have his voice heard by millions. Odd.

 

Clayton

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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It’s a strange world we live in were a guy like Tim Robins can snap his fingers and gain an audience with the national press corp. Then use the opportunity reserved only for people of his societal status to decry talk radio as destroying free speech. Even though talk radio is the one medium that the individual citizen can use to have his voice heard by millions. Odd.

 

Clayton

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Tim Robbins is a moron, along with his wife. I find it ironic that while he uses his Right to free speech to lambast the current Administration (which is most certainly his right even though I am opposed to what he is saying), when people that are opposed to his views and stop going to see his movies and stop watching his shows - exercising their Freedom of Speech, ht cries "Censorship". What a puss! We should all be able to accept the rammifications of what we say, it's part of the responsibility of Freeedom of Speech. He's free to talk, and I'm free to not ever patronize his sponsors, his movies, his TV shows, or anything remotely associated withhim.

 

JM2C

[mayday]

this thread is begining to look like a Rush Linbaugh, Larry King celebrity death match

 

maybe Arnold can tag team

[Bullines]

quote:

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Unfortunately California has earned it reputation for being the Land of Friuts and Nuts. Than Franthithco (that's San Francisco with a lisp) has more butt pirates than just about anywhere on the planet. And they wonder why AIDS is so prevalent.... HMMMMMMMM, gee I wonder. A little too much in through the out door if you ask me. Matter of fact if you wnat to do business in and with the city odf San Francisco, your company's insurance has to 1) provide gender changing surgery if need be, 2) provide benefits to your "partner", and a host of other goodies for the xxxxites of the city. EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!! Man, it's disgusting here. West Hollywood runs a close second. Police there must not disrespect homosexuality in any way or risk being dismissed, no matter whayt your values are.

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Homophobia is gh3y.

 

quote:

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this thread is begining to look like a Rush Linbaugh, Larry King celebrity death match

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Politics can do that to a conversation [bullines' finger is hovering over the big bad padlock]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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Homophobia...

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Phobia: A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.

 

I don't believe that applies here.

[Charles Davis]

Don't rule out Arnold as a joke. My take on him is that he's a charismatic and honest leader who surrounds himself with good advisers and listens to them. He owes nothing to anyone.

 

Besides, any other person will polarize the assembly. Arnold is maybe the one guy who can act most like an impartial broker.

 

Simon is a joke, Riordan is too old, Bustamonte is probably as corrupt as Davis, and McClintock doesn't have the recognition to win.

 

I'm telling you, Arnold is your man.

[Scott Bond]

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I'm telling you, Arnold is your man.

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He is a total polition,poseing as an actor. He is married to the Kennedy's, his wife Marie is the daughter of JFK .

 

Edited in after finding out the facts----------------------------

Shriver is the daughter of prominent politican and diplomat Sargent Shriver and Eunice Kennedy Shriver, sister of John F. and Robert Kennedy. She and Schwarzenegger have four children: Katherine, Christina, Patrick, and Christopher.

--------------------------------

 

 

quote:

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He owes nothing to anyone.

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I am not convinced that this would be possible.

 

[ 08-21-2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]