i found a way to fix every problem in X7

[neurosis]

Do the opposite of ignore them. If the customer calls and you cannot take the call right away, call back within a reasonable amount of time. If they e-mail, reply within a reasonable amount of time. Personally, I'm a work-a-holic so if a customer e-mails me on a weekend, I respond. I may not have an answer, but I at least take the time to respond to their inquiry. Their business matters to me and because fo that, we will make every effort to resolve the issue or answer the question as quickly as possible. Customer Service. It's the name of the game, it's what keeps us ALL in business.

 

Just sayin'

 

Some times I wonder if companies realize how important that is. Waiting days or even weeks for a phone call or email is frustrating. ( I wonder if my VAR is reading this? )

 

 

Getting all this to play nice together has got to be a coders nightmare.

Add in tight (unrealistic ???) schedules driven by a desire to deliver value for our maintenance dollars

and you've got a perfect storm that has brought us to where we are now.

 

And who's fault is all of that? It is certainly not the fault of the maintenance paying customers.

 

It is hard to be empathetic at this point when it seems like rather than fixing the storm that they have created, they just keep adding to it.

[within a thou]

Rule #1 in business, if you don't take care of you customer, somebody else will. That may be cliche, but the bottom line is that it is 100% truth. Even then, there are no guarantees. As somebody who is responsible for end user support of something technical in nature, CNC Software and I have many things in common. I have many customers in here and I think for the most part, they would all agree, my company provides excellent customer support. Can we do better? Absolutely, and every day we try to do better than the previous day. That goes from the top (Bill Selway) all the way through the organization. We know our customers have many, many, many choices when they are purchasing capital equipment and we are grateful for their continued business. That HAS to be the business model plain and simple. If it were not, we would not be who we are in the machine distribution world.

 

 

Do the opposite of ignore them. If the customer calls and you cannot take the call right away, call back within a reasonable amount of time. If they e-mail, reply within a reasonable amount of time. Personally, I'm a work-a-holic so if a customer e-mails me on a weekend, I respond. I may not have an answer, but I at least take the time to respond to their inquiry. Their business matters to me and because fo that, we will make every effort to resolve the issue or answer the question as quickly as possible. Customer Service. It's the name of the game, it's what keeps us ALL in business.

 

Just sayin'

 

+1000

 

Yesterday I signed the PO for a Okuma Genos lathe. We had 2 other lathes we were considering. One was a Tongtai the other a Doosan Puma. The only reason the Tongtai was in the mix was because of the service and help through the entire process of buying a new machine we recieved from their salesman and their service tech. How they lost out was I wasn't as familiar as I was with that brand as opposed to the others and it was a fear the lathe wouldn't last quite as long as the others. Every other piece of equipment here is old and tired a few of the MTB have closed so getting parts can be a bear to say the least.

 

This left it between the Puma and Genos. The Puma was approx. 14% cheaper and although the service techs for the Doosan here are a lot more plentiful and arguably more knowledgable the owner of the company that distributes the Doosan is such a arrogant xxxx it cost him a sale on a new machine.

 

Take care of your customers first and foremost and you will do just fine in business.

[gcode]

It is hard to be empathetic at this point

and yet I have to be. The guys and gals in the trenches at CNC are my friends

[Guest]

... but it seems to me that there are two types of users...

Ummmmm. No. Not even close.

 

There are users that realize how complex software is to begin with so they are not surprised when bugs show up. There are users that vocalize their displeasure in less public forums. There are users that are fanbois yet are openly critical. There are fanbois that are quietly critical. There are fanbios that just e-mail QC@mastercam,com. There are users that have no clue what they are doing and have no business even being programmers being openly critical of said software. There are users that make excuses. There are programmers that make parts. There are users that just quietly do their jobs. Etc... ad infinitum.

[oneyankfan1]

Ummmmm. No. Not even close.

 

There are users that realize how complex software is to begin with so they are not surprised when bugs show up. There are users that vocalize their displeasure in less public forums. There are users that are fanbois yet are openly critical. There are fanbois that are quietly critical. There are fanbios that just e-mail QC@mastercam,com. There are users that have no clue what they are doing and have no business even being programmers being openly critical of said software. There are users that make excuses. There are programmers that make parts. There are users that just quietly do their jobs. Etc... ad infinitum.

 

And yet they either like it or hate it regardless of thier personality or how vocal they are, or their skill level, you either want what you pay for or not.

[oneyankfan1]

business and friendship seldom mix.

[Guest]

... you either want what you pay for or not.

Only the one writing the check or the analyst that gets paid to determine cost effectiveness for capital expenditures can make the determination if the money paid was worth it or not. Some blogger or beginning programmer is not qualified to make that appraisal, especially publically. Besides, most programmers have no idea exactly what their seat of CAD/CAM software cost or what the cost to maintain it is. (NO this is not an invitation to post pricing here so do not take it as such).

[Watcher]

Not sure if everybody knows it, but I'm beta testing VERICUT 7.3

 

Yesterday I asked them for a feedback about the 10 issues I reported in the past 2 weeks;

 

Just got an email from them:

 

"Here is the summary from our tracking system. 10 reported items.

 

6 fixes already implemented in 7.3 beta.

1 closed with no action. (It was not a problem in fact)

3 assigned to be worked on for 7.3 beta (the engineers assigned are on long summer holiday, back in 2 weeks)"

 

That's serious customer care. That's showing me they value our efforts and time we put in testing the software for them.

 

I'll always happily spend my nights doing this job because it returns to me and my company. In next Novemeber, we'll pay their maintenance with a smile on our face!

 

Keep in mind I reported all these less than 2 weeks ago.

[Thee Rickster ™]

I hear that X8 is going to be built from the ground up, with new dos kernals and

modern architecture.... we'll see

[Guest]

CAMplete is the same way. Often times I have a bug fix the same day. 95% of the time I have one the same week. Always in the next release.

[Joe788]

Not sure if everybody knows it, but I'm beta testing VERICUT 7.3

 

Yesterday I asked them for a feedback about the 10 issues I reported in the past 2 weeks;

 

Just got an email from them:

 

"Here is the summary from our tracking system. 10 reported items.

 

6 fixes already implemented in 7.3 beta.

1 closed with no action. (It was not a problem in fact)

3 assigned to be worked on for 7.3 beta (the engineers assigned are on long summer holiday, back in 2 weeks)"

 

That's serious customer care. That's showing me they value our efforts and time we put in testing the software for them.

 

I'll always happily spend my nights doing this job because it returns to me and my company. In next Novemeber, we'll pay their maintenance with a smile on our face!

 

Keep in mind I reported all these less than 2 weeks ago.

 

I keep seeing these comparisons to Vericut - and I think they might be a little unfair to CNC Software. You're talking about a software that serves one or two functions, and is used in the nearly the exact same fashion by virtually all of its users.

 

Mastercam has what, 10X, 50X, 100X as many users as Vericut? Combine that with an infinitely higher number of functions, and the fact that practically everybody uses the software in a completely different fashion from one another - and you've got two situations that are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Occasionally I'll see a person complaining about a Mastercam problem, and they're trying to do something that never even crossed my mind as something anybody would do.

 

This is not to say that waiting 7 years for a bug fix, or never hearing back from the QC inbox is reasonable or acceptable. But buying Vericut is more like buying a Tesla Roadster, where buying Mastercam is like buying a Corvette. Both are expensive and you should expect to get your money's worth, but if you email Tesla to about your roadster, you very well could get an email back from Elon Musk, or the VP of engineering. Try to email GM about the Corvette - and I think you'd have a hard time even finding an address.

 

I've been helping a friend learn Mastercam (his first CAM system), and he's basically losing his mind over it. He can't tell if something is a bug, or if he's just doing something wrong.

[Redfire427]

 

If you were the ceo, what would you do?

What's the right way to show your customer you care?

 

 

In order for anything to be done, you must first admit that something NEEDS to be done. Without acceptance or acknowledging the issues publicly, nothing will ever be done. I completely agree with Daniels posts and suggestions in this thread. Feedback via resellers to the end users is crucial. Currently, resellers are nothing more than a safety buffer for CNC Software.

 

In follow-up to Daniel's suggestions, as the CEO, I would appoint a forum monitor to answer the questions and ACKNOWLEDGE the issues. Following up on these issues would also be key. Listening to the customers issues and suggestions are critical.

 

If in fact Mastercam is written on some outdated structure that has run its course, then CNC Software should embrace whatever new IT technology is available and start from scratch. I certainly don't expect my computers to last forever and they are replaced after a number of years as new technology hits the marketplace, so why shouldn't the software follow suit?

 

Many of the more vocal members on this forum have a tremendous amount of experience with the software, and are managers, supervisors, department heads, etc. These same people are the ones reporting back to senior management when the issue of maintenance renewal comes up. When issues are ignored, over and over, why would any of these intelligent people recommend renewing their maintenance?

[TK-32™]

Ummmmm. No. Not even close.

 

There are users that realize how complex software is to begin with so they are not surprised when bugs show up. There are users that vocalize their displeasure in less public forums. There are users that are fanbois yet are openly critical. There are fanbois that are quietly critical. There are fanbios that just e-mail QC@mastercam,com. There are users that have no clue what they are doing and have no business even being programmers being openly critical of said software. There are users that make excuses. There are programmers that make parts. There are users that just quietly do their jobs. Etc... ad infinitum.

 

and there is YOU

[The Chipmaker]

I had to justify maintenance this year to the powers that be. They wanted to know just how this $Xk plus was worth it. They wanted a break down of my calls and how often I used it. We won't be changing software, but I now have convince them it is worth it.

I won't be changing over to X7 until I read it on here that it is safe and stable.

[oneyankfan1]

Only the one writing the check or the analyst that gets paid to determine cost effectiveness for capital expenditures can make the determination if the money paid was worth it or not. Some blogger or beginning programmer is not qualified to make that appraisal, especially publically. Besides, most programmers have no idea exactly what their seat of CAD/CAM software cost or what the cost to maintain it is. (NO this is not an invitation to post pricing here so do not take it as such).

 

I said Ihavent been using Mastercam as long as everyone, Im not a beginner, and I know what my seats costs and what my anual matienance fees are, where i work we have NX7.5, Catia V5 R21, Mastercam X5,6,7, and Vericut 7.2. We spend a boat load on software every year, so I know that much. I know what we get as far as bang for our buck, and an analyst that doesnt use the software or some CEO that has no idea what the software even does that just writes checks can determine the cost effectiveness for capital expenditures especially if they dont even know what it takes to program parts. That is done by my boss who IS a programmer in the trenches everyday. Asumptions are a big mistake, so I guess what you're saying is that dollar for dollar Mastercam is as good as anything you can buy?

[mkd]

Looks like James and I have the same opinion about how to deal with customers. I always tell my wife that if someday I start my own business, I'll go to bankrupt very early or I'll get rich soon. The reason is because I'll treat my customers so well, that I can go to bankrupt soon.

 

So my two cents on what I would do if I was Mark Summers:

1. I'd keep marketing armed to the teeth as they do today, but R&D would be 1st priority - If they needed an Abrams tank to work I'd get one for them.
    
   
2. Testing and QC guys would be the heroes in the company. Their inputs and outputs would drive the company and the way we develop & release our products.
    
   
3. I'd increase the number of people in QC, and would build a team composed of developers that would work on the bug's backlog of the past decade. The group would exist for as long as it takes to get rid of the backlog.
    
   
4. I'd create surveys or other feedback collection mechanisms so we could prioritize which of these longstanding bugs would be fixed first. The posts in this forum would also be greatly considered and a start point.
    
   
5. I'd meet with my VARs and hear from them. This meeting would be intended solely for QC and feedback collection. No marketing, no demos, no sales discussions...
    
   
6. I'd put even more focus in developing the M/T product to handle the most modern machine out there. This is necessary to the company's survival in the next decade IMHO.
    
   
7. I'd make a very simple rule for the entire management team: Don't waste your time doing meetings. Spend it doing what was agreed on them.
    
   
8. I'd put someone to act as a quality control evangelist in the company. Even the gardner needs to be told in an often basis that we don't exist without happy customers.
    
   
9. I'd create an ombudsman channel. I'd create a culture where retaliation is strictly forbidden. (I work for a company with 350K employees and it works)
    
   
10. I'd reinvent QC - I'd create more filters, more empowerment to them, more ways to collect and prioritize fixes.
     
    
11. I'd bring all my suppliers to the table and explain them that QA is the name of my company now. And hear from them how they think they can help me.
     
    
12. I'd forget the yearly schedule for new releases. 18 months sounds reasonable and aligned with industry practices. If I wanted to maintain the 1 year schedule, then I'll put a few lazy people in the company to work and hire more if necessary.
     
    
13. Again, marketing would not dictate the directions. They would do go-to-market studies and help R&D to understand customer needs. And then sell these needs later.
     
    
14. I'd not release new products with new stuff when is not ready. I'd develop it in parallel and only get it out when beta testers says "OK!"
     
    
15. Technical staff would not respond to marketing guys. They would respond to the heads in R&D and QC, and these, to me.
    

And my two cents about how I'd show my customers I care:

1. I'd send a letter to my customers through my VARs. No need to be a public one (Of course someone would leak it) - There I'd say we understand the situation, that we apologize and that we are re-inventing the company to make them happy. I'd not even ask marketing guys to help me with this letter. It would be one from the deep of my heart, as someone's customer and responsible enterpreneur.
    
   
2. I'd make my bug fixing team to publish fixes in a bi-weekly basis. No new functionality, just fixes. If the user is under maintenance, he gets also fixes for his enhancements. (It's drastic cultural change, but the backlog is huge as well - Frequency matters a lot)
    
   
3. I'd respond to issues in this forum, very promptly, even if in private. If people are vocal here today is because their requests fell on deaf ears at least once... Having your customers posting your shortcomings here is bad propaganda.
    
   
4. I'd respond and act for issues reported in the beta program. I'd make sure all people doing this thankless job for my company would get the treatment and respect they deserve.
    
   
5. I'd tell my VARs to contact me directly if necessary if a key customer sketch the minor signal of unhappiness with my product. I'd encourage everyone with issues to contact my ombudsman/evangelist.
    
   
6. I'd dump some old stuff in MC, as the graphics, as a way to get rid of code that no longer add value. I'd replace it by components used in other mainstream solutions.
    
   
7. I'd create a customer portal so my customers could interact with me, as mentioned here: http://camzone.org/2...er-care-in-cax/
   

Not trying to be an oracle here, but that's where I'd start if I was on Mark Summers shoes...

 

People may think all this noise is just bad luck but it is in fact result of years not listening the most important guy: The customer. If CNC management think the current formula is working for them, then our math is really bad.

 

Daniel

Two questions:

1. when are you opening a cad/cam software company?

2. i will be your first employee. i need $80k per year. when can i expect the first paycheck?

[Cannon]

Mastercam is old "core" software that is just patched up with these new features like machine sim, verify, tool manager ect. The integration of these features is made so that it doest feel like you are using the same software anymore. Maybe there should be complete rewrite of the software but I dont think CNC wants to make that step when they are still making money with the old one.

[Watcher]

...You're talking about a software that serves one or two functions, and is used in the nearly the exact same fashion by virtually all of it's users.

 

:rofl:

 

Joe, with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. Develop SW to perform simulation and material removal based on the G-Code of virtually all CNC machines out there with all possible tool shapes is a lot more difficult than just creating toolpaths. Mastercam only simulates neutral data (NCI), and very limitedly.

 

And the comparisons to VERICUT and other products serves the purpose of eliminating the myth that developing quality CAD/CAM software is too difficult. It is, but other players are doing it well and within the reasonable expectations.

[CJep]

Mastercam is old "core" software that is just patched up with these new features like machine sim, verify, tool manager ect. The integration of these features is made so that it doest feel like you are using the same software anymore.

 

Well to some extent yes,...

But actually it's so folks can still use their "name your legacy function",........

 

So,.. maybe the question should be, what legacy functions are we willing to do without?

[Watcher]

I keep seeing these comparisons to Vericut - and I think they might be a little unfair to CNC Software. You're talking about a software that serves one or two functions, and is used in the nearly the exact same fashion by virtually all of it's users.

 

Mastercam has what, 10X, 50X, 100X as many users as Vericut? Combine that with an infinitely higher number of functions, and the fact that practically everybody uses the software in a completely different fashion from one another - and you've got two situations that are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Occasionally I'll see a person complaining about a Mastercam problem, and they're trying to do something that never even crossed my mind as something anybody would do.

 

This is not to say that waiting 7 years for a bug fix, or never hearing back from the QC inbox is reasonable or acceptable. But buying Vericut is more like buying a Tesla Roadster, where buying Mastercam is like buying a Corvette. Both are expensive and you should expect to get your money's worth, but if you email Tesla to about your roadster, you very well could get an email back from Elon Musk, or the VP of engineering. Try to email GM about the Corvette - and I think you'd have a hard time even finding an address.

 

I've been helping a friend learn Mastercam (his first CAM system), and he's basically losing his mind over it. He can't tell if something is a bug, or if he's just doing something wrong.

 

Joe,

 

Just for the record: CGTech has nearly (less in fact) the same number of employees CNC does, and yet their beta program works. Why is that?

 

I believe the number of VERICUT beta testers is not so different than the number of people testing MC.

[mkd]

..... and yet their beta program works. Why is that?

 

I believe the number of VERICUT beta testers is not so different than the number of people testing MC.

clearly cause you're THE CGtech beta tester.

you have all the answers, you should really open up shop. utopia meets reality.

show me the money

[Guest]

I said Ihavent been using Mastercam as long as everyone, Im not a beginner, and I know what my seats costs and what my anual matienance fees are, where i work we have NX7.5, Catia V5 R21, Mastercam X5,6,7, and Vericut 7.2. We spend a boat load on software every year, so I know that much. I know what we get as far as bang for our buck, and an analyst that doesnt use the software or some CEO that has no idea what the software even does that just writes checks can determine the cost effectiveness for capital expenditures especially if they dont even know what it takes to program parts. That is done by my boss who IS a programmer in the trenches everyday. Asumptions are a big mistake, so I guess what you're saying is that dollar for dollar Mastercam is as good as anything you can buy?

 

Not implying you or anybody in here comenting necessarrily. There's just a LOT of uninformed opinions out there about software in general and sometimes the chaff gets all the topic hits. That's what I'm saying.

 

The analyst or CEO that is doing his/her job is getting feedback from his/her department heads, sees the outlays, sees what's coming in and (hopefully) makes a determination tha is not based solely on emotion.

[Watcher]

clearly cause you're THE CGtech beta tester.

you have all the answers, you should really open up shop. utopia meets reality.

show me the money

 

Attacking me won't make you look smarter. You can pretend that you did not see other people saying about their experiences with other products and how they deal with fixes. You can focus on me, no problem.

 

You, as the shop owner who sees the money everyday, is of course very proud you can workaround all this $hit...

 

I'm very happy I can make a good living not working for you. That would be a waste of will and intellect.

 

BTW: Are you seeing some money from CNC being a fanboi?

[mkd]

Attacking me won't make you look smarter. You can pretend that you did not see other people saying about their experiences with other products and how they deal with fixes. You can focus on me, no problem.

 

You, as the shop owner who sees the money everyday, is very proud you can workaround all this $hit...

 

I'm very happy I can make a good living not working for you. That would be a waste of will and intellect.

 

BTW: Are you seeing some money from CNC being a fanboi?

hey friend, nobody is attacking or insulting you, like what you just did.

just a little poke to remind that having all the answers and being able to implement are two very different things.

and yes of course there will be some focus on you since you are making laundry lists for implementation.

 

but seriously, with your wide knowledge and passion for CAD/CAM, why wouldn't you open your own development company? you could blend all the best features of current systems into one.

[Watcher]

but seriously, with your wide knowledge and passion for CAD/CAM, why wouldn't you open your own development company? you could blend all the best features of current systems into one.

 

Mkd,

 

The answers for this are very simple:

• I don't have the necessary education to develop quality CAx software. I only went to the college, at night, when I started to make money enough to pay for it while I could raise my family as well. Unfortunately my parents could not pay for my schooling. Yes, in the ideal world we go to the school first, and then after getting the ducks in a row, we get married and move on. That was not my case. No regrets here but trying to teach my kids to follow a different way.
  
• I live in a country that has 1 (low end) CAx software developed here. Brazil has no tradition in this industry. I wish I was 20 years old again knowing what I know now and with the degree I hold now.
  
• I have a family to raise and I got it before I knew what a post-processor does. I cannot take chances that could harm them. In fact, they were the reason I did not make some moves in my career, including working abroad for a couple of CAx companies.
  
• I don't have money to start a company to develop CAx. I can 't afford to hire someone that would cost me 80K annualy. I can barely pay all taxes in this country.
  
• There's fierce competition for CAx development these days. The CAD/CAM world as we know today was VERY different in the 80's, when MC started. Even with 5 Phds in math related fields I'd have problems to start from zero with a breakthrough idea.
  

There are basically two types of entrepreneurs: Internal and external.

• External entrepreneurs are guys that open their own shops and companies.
  
• Internal ones are guys like me, that works for somebody but try to come up with ideas and results as if they were working for themselves.
  

The world needs both types.

 

I'm not a clueless dreamer. I just think certain things can/ought be done differently. Most of things I listed can be easily done by a CEO if he wants it. It's not like trying to save Yahoo from the fall.