To Haas or not to Haas

[MIDGARD]

I need some input into what type of VMC will give us the most BANG for the BUCK ???? We are a custom plastic mold shop and build small to med. size molds for anyone and anything. We are sorta swayed towards a Haas VF1 for making our trodes for the CNC EDM we have and a VF3,4or5 for all the other machining.We have a Fryer salesman trying to sell us a Fryer and tells us to stay away from Haas because there controllers, in his eyes, are JUNK.Thanks in advance and don't be afraid to speak your mind,please. Midgard Plastics

[crazy^millman]

I say the controller is not junk. But at this point I need mroe time now to tell you. I am on my 3 motor for my VF2 SS and looking my Snd on My VF4 SS. I do run these machines at balls to the walls. I used up my codes in 2 months that are suppose to last me 6 months. I have got good service out of haas but I am also 4 hours away from the factory. I ran a Mazak for years full bore cutting stell, SS, and Ht parts and olnt had one spindle in 5 years but it was 8,000 rpms not 12,000. I am also only cutting Aluminum and Plastics on these machines. I do have the balalnced tool holders and my fellow memebers told me I was Crazy for running these machine this Hard. Rekd keep doing this for pushing them as hard as I have since he has been down this same road. Good machine and good controller if I can keep a motor running in them. I also have the ethernet option on my machien and it does a good job for big files like 20 to 50 mb no problem could do up to 20 gig files if need be.

[jrykrl]

IMHO, the Haas is great for soft material.

Not a good machine for stainless, but steel, aluminum, and plastic, it will eat it up.

The control is very good, and not to hard to get used to.

jm2

Jer

[jspangler]

Hi

The control is simple, and easy to learn, but do you need that? Or do you need a machine that will cut and not break down?

I personally would rather get a machine that is going to last.

 

Keep in mind that I'm biased against Haas because I was screwed on a "warranty" repair for a transmission, and would have to REALLY be convinced to ever buy anything from them again. Especially since I would have to deal with the same dealer who screwed me because of the way their territories are set up. Whatever...

 

On my machine, which I don't think I run very hard,and have had for 3 years, I have had the service guy out here at least 4-5 times a year for simple, yet always expensive repairs. Also their service may be quick but is totally inconsistent from one guy to the next.

 

Their transmissions and tool changers just BLOW.

 

If I had to do it again, I'd buy a used good machine before a new Haas.

 

 

Thanks

 

JOhn

[Keithm]

If it wher my money I would buy a machine that is built to last. I like Okuma mills controls are good and the machine run very good.

[chris m]

For the smaller machine the Haas VF2SS my buddy has [like the one Ron is talking about eating motors] is a pretty nice little machine but he doesn't run the spindle wide open for long periods of time and the machine is only used 10 or 12 hours a day maximum [even that isn't run time, just 'ON' time] so he doesn't see the kinds of problems Ron [and John] have had. If you have limited funds, a VF-4 or -5 sized "good" machine [Mori, Matsuura, Okuma] is gonna be BIG $$ [really BIG $$]; probably not an option.

 

If you are gonna get 2 machines for a certain amount of dollars, you might want to look at a really sweet machine [Mori, Matsuura, Okuma] in the smaller size and go for the Haas or [gag] Fadal type of machine on the big one

 

C

[Roger Peterson]

I have not used or even seen a fryer but I have met a couple machinists that have said they are very well made for the price and I think they have fanuc controls. I personally don't "love" the haas controller but I am not sure why he saying it is "junk". You are not going to get the blocks per second or highspeed options you do on a fanuc but I think there are other things on the Haas that are more suspect than the controller(see crazy millman). Personally if I am going to run the machine it better have a knob for speed and feed override.(pet peeve)

 

 

good luck!

[MACHINEMASTERG]

we have 7 haas machines here run them at least 15 hrs aday the only service calls were under warrinty and the service was good for the money $$$ a good deal.. we cut stainless no problum you will hear bad stuff from some people no matter what you buy go with your gut on this one and do the home work we looked at the fryer but bought the haas the sale rep for fryer should have been selling used cars if you cant afford the big$$$ boys(mori,mat..etc..etc) then buy from the locals guys

[Camfun]

We have a VF2SS here, and this machine is fantastic!!!

 

The control is very very powerful, with learning curve very fast.

 

I have that recognize, here in Brazil none supplier of CNC machines have a similar product.

The mechanics, aspect, look, etc...

 

And yet, Haas produces your own control, and optimize eletronics and mechanics parts to work with this control.

 

Once for all,

 

A Hass, is a Hass.

[chris m]

quote:

---

Personally if I am going to run the machine it better have a knob for speed and feed override

---

10-4 on that one!

 

The Haas control with 1,000,000 little buttons ain't my favorite

[biss03]

We have at least 20 Haas machines ranging from a vintage 80's VF-1 to a brand new VF-4 with the side tool changer and 12000 rpm spindle. yes we have had problems with them but mostly on stuff you would expect to have go bad on older machines (5years minimum) that run 24 hours a day 7 days a week. certainly no more trouble than any of the mori horizontals or lathes. out of all of them, i think we have had one machine that i would classify as having been a lemon. but that is still pretty good odds.

 

one word of caution though: stay away from the 32 tool standard mount tool changers if you don't need that many tools at once. this is one area that Haas definetely needs to improve on (i'm not sure if they have 32 tool side mount changers so i can't comment on those).we have 4 machines with these and they do not last - too bulky for the size bolts (3/8 i think) they use to mount the components with.

 

anyways i think i've made my point. hope this helps.

[herbert west]

I have a lot of experience with Haas. Their controls are excellent, just cover the floppy port with tape to seal out shop dust. The early ones from around 94',96' are more reliable then the newer ones. At my last shop we had a VB11 and the service people were there so much that we were gonna give them their own office and coffee pot. The 5 axis drill cycles didn't work, the spindle died three times in a month, the chip auger flew up from out of the machine bed and mangled the sheet metal twice. Haas.. good entry level machine, excellent contol, good for light work in 40 taper class. Have you looked at Mazak?, Enshu?, Mori?. I would look at a refurbished japanese machine myself.

[?Mark]

Go for Mori, Okk or Matsuura

I'll take any of them used, over any new Haas or Fadal.

They 'll be good for years.

We have some 20 year old mori and kuraki and I can't remember them ever being broken. Except when the lighting strike fried one of the boards on a kuraki.

But we've never pushed them to the max so I'm not sure if my advise counts.

[Bob_Looney]

Buy a Mori, if you don't have the money, buy an Akira-Seiki. I did and I run it at 10,000 all day, every day. 100 - 200 ipm, no problems in the year and half I have owned it. All mitsubishi componants, all control options standard.

[herbert west]

In my opinion the way to go for me would be to go asian. Mori-seiki, Hitachi-seiki, Ooya, Okk, Enshu, Okuma-howa, Matsuura, Kuraki, Viper etc. In a 50 taper machine these guys will throw vises and snap large tools without even slowing down.

[Rekd™]

If money's an issue, you won't go wrong with HAAS. I've been running them for years. Lots of them. I've had problems with them, but it's not worth the expense of higher end machines. The bottom line, it makes what I need to make accurately.

 

I've also run a few high end machines, and if you can afford one, you won't be disapointed. (Except you could prolly get a pair or more of HAAS' and get more parts per day )

 

'Rekd

[TheePres]

Ran Hass for first time this week..learning curve on controls about 2 hrs..and havent touched a machine in months. Ive heard complaints about missing feed and speed knobs...but i kinda like the 10% buttons.

Cant vouch for durability yet, but it is a vey user freindly machine.

[gcode]

On the newer controls the jog wheel does double duty as a feed override ( I think) its been a couple of years since I ran a machine

[Rekd™]

Yes, it does gcode. You can also run them up to 999% via this method.

 

I think my worst complaint is that you have to look away from what you're doing to change axis while jogging..

 

'Rekd

[MILLRUNNER]

We have a fryer 30/60 where I work and the guy that runs it calls it a chicken bucket. He says it is a good durable machine and the controler is pretty good. He says there are just certain things about it that doesnt make sense sometimes, like it will do crazy stuff now and then. I learned most of my cnc on a haas and I think they are great machines for plastics and AL and maybe a mild steel. I do agree with others on their durrability. I have never had a problem with the controls of a haas mill or lathe, they always seemed pretty much dummy proof. I may sound dumb mentioning this because I don't know what other's responses will be but we have a Daewoo 40/60 also. This machine is hands down the best machine in the shop in my opinion. controls are relatively easy to understand and it is one hell of a durable machine. stainless and hot rolled are the 2 common metals run in this particular mill and it does a great job. never really any big problems either. good luck.

[Rekd™]

Millrunner,

 

My brother in Penn is running a couple of Daewoo lathes; he's taking some insane cuts with them. He loves 'em.

 

'Rekd

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

---

I think my worst complaint is that you have to look away from what you're doing to change axis while jogging..

---

There is a tetherd remote option you can get for them that puts the jog handle, a step size knob and an axis knob on a hand-held box. I've got one on my school's VF4 and HL2.

[Mike Mattera - TFM]

Everyone loves the value, quality and the control.

Both the machine and the control are made in the USA. That may or may not mean anything to you depending on where your located, but it is something to consider.

 

Mike Mattera

[Phil Orenstein]

I just wanted to chime in on the Fryer issue if anyone is still on this thread. My advice is to stay away. In my last shop, Fryer sold us a real wolf ticket. It as a shop mill ( 45K for a retrofitted knee mill with an Anilam control) with a 6-tool changer on the bed. First of all the tool changer worked poorly. The threaded drawbar mechanism sometimes didn't release the previous tool and it ended up crashing on top of the next tool. We also had major problems with the Anilam control which would occasionally rapid the tool in Z down into the part. When we tried to get service on this, they just passed the buck. Fryer poited the finger at Anilam and Anilam at Fryer. My advise, stay away from both!

 

Phil

[Mackius]

I would consider A Daewoo or haas.

 

Sure it would be nice to buy a over priced japanase cnc, like Matsuura, OKK, enshu, Mori, but then ask yourself, do you really feel like spending the next 10yrs or more paying them off?????

 

Or you could own a Daewoo or Haas, and pay them off in 5yrs.

 

Do you know why alot of job shops go out of business, tis because the owners always buys the biggest, fanciest machine , and when he can't afford those hefty monthly payments, he eventually has to shut down. And guess what that fancy machine he paid $300K when it was new, well it can now be had for half that because its used.