2d contour mill Multipass aircutting

[Azoth]

Is there a way to have the Multipass simply duplicate the original contour or Lock the multiple pass replication/translation to the X axis instead of scaling out in X and Y? I don't want the tool cutting so much air like that on the outer passes. I feel like I'm going to have to manually draw literally every toolpath to get mastercam to put out logical programs.

[AHarrison1]

You should give the dynamic toolpaths a go, they are more stock aware and utilizes that awareness to minimize air cut motion. 

[amw]

You could transform the toolpath if you really want the exact same motion repeated over and over. 

For this example dynamic would be better. Or just chain the straight section for roughing, and then use the full thing for finish. 

[Azoth]

The dynamic toolpath seems geared for High Speed machining which I've never witnessed in action in all my 3 years of experience (may need to look into it). Right now I'm just trying to replicate a few old programs I've ran (fixturing and all) since cloning a known process seems like a good way to gauge my command over a cam system. They happen to run conventionally slow, shallow, and heavy cuts so I don't want to use mastercam's dynamic toolpaths for this. The program I'm replicating wasn't made in mastercam, but mcam holds the majority share of job postings so I've just been trying it out. I still think I'd rather use one that will give me what I want without having to trick the software.

I'll probably just bang these parts out so I'm atleast familiar with the process before demoing a few others. I've found I'm not the only one making these same complaints going back 10 years unaddressed and the 2 solutions that keep coming up is "manually draw your toolpath" and "it's good enough for me so quit whining".

If I end up sticking with mastercam I'll just have to get in the habit of drawing auxiliary geometry as I model the part if I want specific toolpaths. Created a curve from the solid, duplicated and offset twice, then mirrored about the axis and chained in order. Only saved 2 minutes, but the aircutting is hard for me to look at. It's just annoying because not only do I have to waste time manually placing toolpaths, I also can't adjust my stepover as a variable and must instead manually shift the new guidelines.

Is this what programming with cam is supposed to be? I guess I should go easier on my programmer for some of the wack toolpaths he gives me. I had no idea these exorbitantly priced programs would be so particular.

[Simon Kausch]

1 hour ago, Azoth said:

The dynamic toolpath seems geared for High Speed machining which I've never witnessed in action in all my 3 years of experience (may need to look into it). Right now I'm just trying to replicate a few old programs I've ran (fixturing and all) since cloning a known process seems like a good way to gauge my command over a cam system. They happen to run conventionally slow, shallow, and heavy cuts so I don't want to use mastercam's dynamic toolpaths for this.

Dynamic toolpaths are not just for high speed machining, you should give them a try.

[Azoth]

45 minutes ago, Simon Kausch said:

Dynamic toolpaths are not just for high speed machining, you should give them a try.

Still not in a programming position, just trying to prove to myself I got it down by replicating a known job. But yeah, if I can find a job that lets you program your own parts I've got some experimenting to do.

[Newbeeee™]

3 hours ago, Azoth said:

The dynamic toolpath seems geared for High Speed machining which I've never witnessed in action in all my 3 years of experience (may need to look into it). Right now I'm just trying to replicate a few old programs I've ran (fixturing and all) since cloning a known process seems like a good way to gauge my command over a cam system. They happen to run conventionally slow, shallow, and heavy cuts so I don't want to use mastercam's dynamic toolpaths for this. The program I'm replicating wasn't made in mastercam, but mcam holds the majority share of job postings so I've just been trying it out. I still think I'd rather use one that will give me what I want without having to trick the software.

I'll probably just bang these parts out so I'm atleast familiar with the process before demoing a few others. I've found I'm not the only one making these same complaints going back 10 years unaddressed and the 2 solutions that keep coming up is "manually draw your toolpath" and "it's good enough for me so quit whining".

If I end up sticking with mastercam I'll just have to get in the habit of drawing auxiliary geometry as I model the part if I want specific toolpaths. Created a curve from the solid, duplicated and offset twice, then mirrored about the axis and chained in order. Only saved 2 minutes, but the aircutting is hard for me to look at. It's just annoying because not only do I have to waste time manually placing toolpaths, I also can't adjust my stepover as a variable and must instead manually shift the new guidelines.

Is this what programming with cam is supposed to be? I guess I should go easier on my programmer for some of the wack toolpaths he gives me. I had no idea these exorbitantly priced programs would be so particular.

 

#1 LMAO.

#2 In all my years here, I can't recall anyone of prominence saying "it's good enough for me so quit whining". The older guard here, are both VERY critical, but also VERY defensive - ultimately they all collectively want a better product and are VERY proactive

#3 LMAO again

[jpatry]

6 hours ago, Azoth said:

The dynamic toolpath seems geared for High Speed machining which I've never witnessed in action in all my 3 years of experience (may need to look into it). Right now I'm just trying to replicate a few old programs I've ran (fixturing and all) since cloning a known process seems like a good way to gauge my command over a cam system. They happen to run conventionally slow, shallow, and heavy cuts so I don't want to use mastercam's dynamic toolpaths for this. The program I'm replicating wasn't made in mastercam, but mcam holds the majority share of job postings so I've just been trying it out. I still think I'd rather use one that will give me what I want without having to trick the software.

I'll probably just bang these parts out so I'm atleast familiar with the process before demoing a few others. I've found I'm not the only one making these same complaints going back 10 years unaddressed and the 2 solutions that keep coming up is "manually draw your toolpath" and "it's good enough for me so quit whining".

If I end up sticking with mastercam I'll just have to get in the habit of drawing auxiliary geometry as I model the part if I want specific toolpaths. Created a curve from the solid, duplicated and offset twice, then mirrored about the axis and chained in order. Only saved 2 minutes, but the aircutting is hard for me to look at. It's just annoying because not only do I have to waste time manually placing toolpaths, I also can't adjust my stepover as a variable and must instead manually shift the new guidelines.

Is this what programming with cam is supposed to be? I guess I should go easier on my programmer for some of the wack toolpaths he gives me. I had no idea these exorbitantly priced programs would be so particular.

Well, You can use the trim function to circumcise any unnecessary toolpath motion, if you are dead set against using 2D Dynamic

[neurosis]

3 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

#2 In all my years here, I can't recall anyone of prominence saying "it's good enough for me so quit whining".

Maybe not in those exact words?     I do remember a lot of excuse making for software shortcomings back in the day.  This is one area I'm surprised that in this amount of time, hasn't been addressed. Cimatron was able to do this back in the 90's  without having to draw a bunch of extra geometry or rely on roughing operations.  It's a simple 2d contour and you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get it to not cut a bunch of air.  

How much air cutting to you see TopSolid doing when using 2d contour? 

/putting on the flame suit and waiting for the ole adage "a programmer never blames his tools".    

[JParis]

[Kyle F]

The dynamic toolpath,... is it geared towards high speed machining? maybe, yes, but you know you can do a dynamic toolpath with a 90% stepover and 500% depth of cut so I mean, it's all kind of available to tweak at your disposal.

2d dynamic mill is probably my favorite toolpath

[Jake L]

9 hours ago, Azoth said:

I still think I'd rather use one that will give me what I want without having to trick the software.

9 hours ago, Azoth said:

Is this what programming with cam is supposed to be? I guess I should go easier on my programmer for some of the wack toolpaths he gives me. I had no idea these exorbitantly priced programs would be so particular.

One of the biggest things I've learned, being a good programmer isn't just knowing how to use the software. It's also knowing how to manipulate the software into getting the output you want. 

Sometimes Mr. Paris's easy button simply doesn't exist to get the exact output you're looking for. 

In this case, I agree with the community, 2D Dynamic. 

Is Mastercam lacking in 2D contour multi pass? Maybe. Is it lacking in other areas? Definitely. But every CAD / CAM software is going to have its strengths and weaknesses.

[gcode]

There is a very simple old school  way to do this.

Make a single depth pass/2D contour that has the desired radial stepover.

Make the leadin/leadouts excessively long.

Backplot the toolpath and save the geometry,

Trim the start and end of the geometry as desired to eliminate the air cuts.

Chain the new geometry using a C/L toolpath, and add the desired depth cuts 

It's a little work, but when it's done, you have exactly what you want.

 

[JParis]

12 minutes ago, Jake L said:

Sometimes Mr. Paris's easy button simply doesn't exist to get the exact output you're looking for. 

Spot on!

Many times there is no "Easy" button, especially when you are looking for a specific type of motion output. A good programmer can get any and everything out of the software if he/she is willing to work a little.

In my pool, my guys have got to know how to swim in the deep end. Most days they are going to get challenged and if they don't know how to achieve something, I teach them how to get it done. That's what us "old guys" do to pass along the knowledge.

and to the OP...

You could also offset multiple contours on each side based on the step over you want and without using multi-passes, chain all of them based on the outside to inside cutting you want.

[Newbeeee™]

3 hours ago, neurosis said:

Maybe not in those exact words?     I do remember a lot of excuse making for software shortcomings back in the day.  This is one area I'm surprised that in this amount of time, hasn't been addressed. Cimatron was able to do this back in the 90's  without having to draw a bunch of extra geometry or rely on roughing operations.  It's a simple 2d contour and you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get it to not cut a bunch of air.  

How much air cutting to you see TopSolid doing when using 2d contour? 

/putting on the flame suit and waiting for the ole adage "a programmer never blames his tools".    

LoL

We know bugfixes and enhancement requests have always taken a back seat to the sales department's new shiny best sellers etc which has always caused many frustrations. But life is a compromise....

OP says "They happen to run conventionally slow, shallow, and heavy cuts so I don't want to use mastercam's dynamic toolpaths for this. " without knowing what the dynamic paths can actually do.... many more hours of reading the books, watching youtube videos and reading this forum (search "whatever") and asking many more questions will be of massive benefit.

As we know, to be competent will take a lot longer than a few months, but the wonderful thing about mastercam is there's many ways to do the job, and you can get exactly the output that you want.

Whether that's the "best way" or not though....

 

[Jobnt]

10 hours ago, Azoth said:

in all my 3 years of experience

 

10 hours ago, Azoth said:

f I end up sticking with mastercam I'll just have to get in the habit of drawing auxiliary geometry as I model the part if I want specific toolpaths....

blah blah blah

...Is this what programming with cam is supposed to be? I guess I should go easier on my programmer for some of the wack toolpaths he gives me. I had no idea these exorbitantly priced programs would be so particular.

Give it another 6 years then get back to us about your "command" of CAM software. Mastercam is very capable and can do what you want multiple ways. Some easier than others but always able to get the job done.

You were given excellent advice and ignored it to go on bashing something you literally know nothing about. Your boss must be so proud of you and your work ethic. 

Completely unrelated question... do you know Jon Banquer?

[Leon82]

trim tool path. supr easy

 

make geometry half the tool bigger t least so it doesn't plunge into stockem

[JParis]

12 hours ago, Azoth said:

Still not in a programming position, just trying to prove to myself I got it down by replicating a known job. But yeah, if I can find a job that lets you program your own parts I've got some experimenting to do.

Here's the problem...you are trying to replicate a job....do you have the CAM file in front of you?

If not, you have no idea how the toolpath was created and what voodoo might have been used to get what the programmer wanted. As such just trying to replicate something you don't know how it was built, it is tricky task as it may not be a straightforward as it may seem on the surface.

[AMCNitro]

15 hours ago, Azoth said:

The dynamic toolpath seems geared for High Speed machining which I've never witnessed in action in all my 3 years of experience (may need to look into it). Right now I'm just trying to replicate a few old programs I've ran (fixturing and all) since cloning a known process seems like a good way to gauge my command over a cam system. They happen to run conventionally slow, shallow, and heavy cuts so I don't want to use mastercam's dynamic toolpaths for this. The program I'm replicating wasn't made in mastercam, but mcam holds the majority share of job postings so I've just been trying it out. I still think I'd rather use one that will give me what I want without having to trick the software.

I'll probably just bang these parts out so I'm atleast familiar with the process before demoing a few others. I've found I'm not the only one making these same complaints going back 10 years unaddressed and the 2 solutions that keep coming up is "manually draw your toolpath" and "it's good enough for me so quit whining".

If I end up sticking with mastercam I'll just have to get in the habit of drawing auxiliary geometry as I model the part if I want specific toolpaths. Created a curve from the solid, duplicated and offset twice, then mirrored about the axis and chained in order. Only saved 2 minutes, but the aircutting is hard for me to look at. It's just annoying because not only do I have to waste time manually placing toolpaths, I also can't adjust my stepover as a variable and must instead manually shift the new guidelines.

Is this what programming with cam is supposed to be? I guess I should go easier on my programmer for some of the wack toolpaths he gives me. I had no idea these exorbitantly priced programs would be so particular.

You're not going to get very far by coming on here, saying you're a newbie (its ok, we were all newbies at one point), then turning around and complain about the capabilities of the "exorbitantly priced' software.  Everyone on here will help you as much as you need, but good attitude goes a long way.  Conversably, you can just go and program it by hand.

[cruzila]

16 hours ago, Azoth said:

The dynamic toolpath seems geared for High Speed machining which I've never witnessed in action in all my 3 years of experience (may need to look into it).

The reality is, this toolpath is only what you make it to be. It is a "tool". There are many ways to swing a hammer or drive a nail. I would categorize it as geared towards high efficiency tool paths. There is no option other than looking in to it!!

There again, no offense but, becoming Journey level was a full 5 year program that included ALL aspects of machining. With todays world and shop practices that 5 years has changed to 10 years or more or in some cases, never. You can never stop learning, I'm in over 40 years and still learn all the time.

[MrFish]

2D Area mill will achieve what you want, it is technically a High speed tool path though so you may be adverse to using it !

 

[Azoth]

12 hours ago, JParis said:

and to the OP...

You could also offset multiple contours on each side based on the step over you want and without using multi-passes, chain all of them based on the outside to inside cutting you want.

Yep thanks, that's exactly what I did in my 2nd pic.

5 hours ago, MrFish said:

2D Area mill will achieve what you want, it is technically a High speed tool path though so you may be adverse to using it !

I looked at all of them, that one too. Only averse in this instance because the goal is to see what it takes to manipulate a cam program to reproduce a very specific toolpath. Not a similar one. Not a better one. Now I am satisfied to know that I can get it to do what I want. Just disappointed that the tools mastercam provides are so compartmentalized.

12 hours ago, gcode said:

There is a very simple old school  way to do this.

...

It's a little work, but when it's done, you have exactly what you want.

Straightforward. Both programmers at both companies I've worked at were in-their-rut old school programmers, so maybe that's how they go about it. My expectations of modern industrial software just needs calibrating.

10 hours ago, Jobnt said:

Give it another 6 years then get back to us about your "command" of CAM software. Mastercam is very capable and can do what you want multiple ways. Some easier than others but always able to get the job done.

You were given excellent advice and ignored it to go on bashing something you literally know nothing about. Your boss must be so proud of you and your work ethic. 

Completely unrelated question... do you know Jon Banquer?

3 years of machining and 1 weekend of mastercam wasn't a brag on my mastery of the trade... I was pointing out that dynamic mill is just not in the scope of this experiment. Though I do find myself regularly babysitting 30 year machining veterans so maybe you're onto something. Top tier work ethic here.

Not sure what excellent advice you're referring to because I posted the toolpath yesterday ahead of all the replies.

I guess sorry for criticizing things that google has revealed to have been previously criticized over the eons?

And clearly if I can look at a part and anticipate what it takes to get programmed using a particular CAM program then I have no reason not to be confident in my command of the software so... I mean, if you want I can probably train you in mastercam if it really took you 6 years.

[Azoth]

16 hours ago, JParis said:

Basically what I expected. Not that programming isn't easy, just that I didn't know adding geometry to drive certain toolpaths would have to be a thing. I didn't expect mastercam to read my mind, but more naively assumed every facet of every toolpath would be parameterized and accessible in a modern GUI... except the money isn't in making it easier to do simple toolpaths that are already easy to write by hand so it makes sense. Guess learning the quirks of the available CAM software is at the crux of cnc programming.

[Newbeeee™]

6 hours ago, Azoth said:

....then I have no reason not to be confident in my command of the software so... I mean, if you want I can probably train you in mastercam if it really took you 6 years.

LMAO again!

Certainly "grade A" for Attitude

[Thad]

You're going to have a tough time in this trade. Good luck!