Different experience, different preferances but...

[Metals and materials]

Haas vs DMG vs Mori vs Mazak vs Okuma vs Protrak (southwestern) vs Milltronics many more...

Looking to buy new machine within budget of 125000 (starting new business).  As a machinist and a programmer, what works the best with Mastercam and in general as well, which one is the best?

One thing I could say is I absolutely love Mastercam!!!

Any suggestion / recommendation for newbie like me. Tips n Tricks? Anything to keep in mind before venturing into this small business? 

Let's connect as well! My inbox is open. 

Thank you in advance!

[crazy^millman]

What size machine? What kind of material? Bang for the buck and financing options HAAS is going to be real hard to beat. They have some deals on soem in stock machines with 20 Cat 40 holders and a 6" Vice.

Link

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

If you get no other options, get probing.

[Newbeeee™]

But what market are you going into? If R+D/Prototype, you have to go a long way to beat Prototrak lathe and Prototrak mill. Conversational heaven.

If you're going into a mix of low volume with also 'grammin on the machine, Siemens takes a LOT of beating (more capable than Prototrak but support and 10 year service/support?)

If you're chasing volume, controller becomes less important IMHO. Although Fanuc for MTBF, is always #1.

Whatever controller you choose, you need a bullet proof mastercam post.

And remember if you are stood grammin at the machine, the machine isn't running.

And when you're talking to customers, quoting jobs, grammin jobs, delivering jobs, and invoicing jobs etc, your machine may also not be running.

And if spindles don't turn, you don't earn....

And unless separate machine budget, you need Inspection equipment to verify what you're making....and then ISO approval to probably get but that's another day!

Good luck!

 

[cncappsjames]

Does your budget number include tooling or is that the machine budget?

The kind of work you intend to do will dictate a lot; table size, travel, number of tool positions, etc...

I agree with spindle probe being a MUST. Tool Measurement system is REALLY handy too but, that can be added in the future easily enough. 

What control features you are going to need will be dictated by what kind of work you intend to do.

[Aaron Eberhard]

I would definitely need to know more about your target customers, target material, etc.   I will say that unless you're targeting exotics, I would make sure to get a 12-14k spindle with thru-tool coolant.  As you get going, I'm sure you'll cut a lot of aluminum and that's really the minimum to be successful at it unless you have a lot of prototype work that an extra 20% reduction in cycle time doesn't matter.  Going higher RPM means you probably won't have enough torque for the lower-RPM jobs that come through the door.   I'm limited by my 8k spindle, but I'm only ever doing fixtures/small runs, so for this machine it doesn't hurt as bad. 

I just programmed an 6061 job for a customer with a big Okuma that was limited to 5k...  That was painful cycle times!   I had to move the recommended sliders ALLLLL The way to the minimum of all the calculators I used on that one.  They normally only do harder steels on that machine, so they went for torque. 

I'm not sure what the offerings are in that price range, but I can say that having a pallet changer is REALLY nice.  It allows you be more modular with fixtures (keep vices on one, quick change on another, etc.), but the trade off is table size. 

[Jake L]

9 hours ago, Aaron Eberhard said:

having a pallet changer is REALLY nice.  It allows you be more modular with fixtures (keep vices on one, quick change on another, etc.), but the trade off is table size. 

To go along with this, with more than 1 pallet the spindle does not have to stop while changing parts. That's always talked about when we have customers touring our shop.

...5k max in 6061... yikes 

[#Rekd™]

On top of what the others have advised. Look at local support for servicing the machine (do they have technicians within reasonable traveling distance). The door height and width into your building, will the machine fit in without removing anything? Adding a pneumatic spindle is a great way of increasing RPM for small cutters. 

[Kyle F]

1 hour ago, Jake L said:

...5k max in 6061... yikes 

90% stepover it is 

[DUM1]

if ai were just starting i would probably go with something easy 

UMC-1500-DUO | 5-Axis Mill | 40-Taper | Vertical Mills – Haas CNC Machines

would love to have one of these HAAS duo 

[Aaron Eberhard]

37 minutes ago, Kyle F said:

90% stepover it is 

There was a lot of that...    Unfortunately, when the part has < R.25" inside corners, there's only so much you can hog...

 

12 minutes ago, DUM1 said:

if ai were just starting i would probably go with something easy 

UMC-1500-DUO | 5-Axis Mill | 40-Taper | Vertical Mills – Haas CNC Machines

would love to have one of these HAAS duo 

Hurco has an equivalent, where it's a B axis head and a rotary built into half of the table, I'm not sure what the cost is.

[AMCNitro]

You don't want to buy a machine that will limit your capabilities.  IMO it's better to spend the money early so that you don't hamstring the future of your shop.  If you buy an entry level mill/lathe you're going to be turning down jobs, and you're going to be forced to spend more money later to get the better paying jobs.  If you spend the money upfront for full mill/lathe you can do the small R&D jobs AND the bigger production jobs.  Always be looking forward and larger, don't limit your vision.  

 

[Metals and materials]

@crazy^millman @Matthew Hajicek - Singularity @Newbeeee™ @cncappsjames @Aaron Eberhard @Jake L @#Rekd™ @Kyle F @DUM1 @AMCNitro 

Honestly speaking, I have not yet thought about any Niche market or specific materials or size. My thought was whatever job I could fine, accomplish it with best quality. 

SO, I was thinking 5 Axis machine at first may be UMC 500. Becasue the market demands it. But at the same time, I do not have any concrete job work to do making my machine sit idle.  Which I thought is the main thing as well. 

For atleast starting, I am open to both low volumes and high volumes. But in the long run, soft balance between those two is what I am looking. 

For now, not too big parts. My budget is arounf $125k. 

Last but most important thing, if you know any companies who is giving out work, please let me know. At the very least, we can all seat at a table and see where it will lead us. 

Feel free to PM me as well. 

[DUM1]

cool thing about haas is their easy to use and have all the information easy to find / access of all the machines I have ever Run they have been the easiest to learn.

from all the haas videos and online forums, wish all machines had that kind of support. 

HAAS has by far the best learning web site I have ever seen. 

wish I was running one now, all okumas now 

[Newbeeee™]

10 hours ago, Metals and materials said:

 

Last but most important thing, if you know any companies who is giving out work, please let me know. At the very least, we can all seat at a table and see where it will lead us. 

Feel free to PM me as well. 

No one,  a b s o l u t e l y  no one, will give you any work at all, without you being up and running, and even slightly established.

I will also say - they won't even sit you down to discuss, without you being up and running.

The hardest part of this game, is not doing the work (although that can have HUGE problems), but it's getting and then keeping the customer.

[gcode]

5 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

but it's getting and then keeping the customer

and getting paid !

[Kyle F]

13 hours ago, DUM1 said:

wish I was running one now, all okumas now 

Woah woah don't get crazy now. I work in a mainly haas shop and I'd love some okumas in their place 

I'll take rigidity over a pretty GUI any day. For an operator, daily use is really just setting tool and work offsets, which is very similar between fanuc/haas controls

 

[JParis]

1 minute ago, Kyle F said:

I'll take rigidity over a pretty GUI any day.

Everyday and twice on Sundays  

[#Rekd™]

25 minutes ago, Kyle F said:

I'll take rigidity over a pretty GUI any day.

 

23 minutes ago, JParis said:

Everyday and twice on Sundays 

 

This is what the ladies say as well!!!!!  :D~~~~~~

[Newbeeee™]

3 hours ago, gcode said:

and getting paid !

THAT, is a bonus!