hourly wages

[highrevtrev]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been programming in mastercam for about a year. I can make simple and complex 2D parts and can program some simple surfaces. Recently i have taught myself how to do tooling and setups on our mazak fjv-35/60. I have also learned how to upload my programs set the machine up and make good parts consistantly. I was courious with what skills i have learned over the past year how much should i be making for an hourly wage?

 

Thanks

 

Trevor

[?Mark]

Look here

web page

 

 

Mark

[crazy^millman]

I would ask hom much have you learned on your own and how much have you learned on company time. If you can say mostly company time then you need to give the ability to work with you. If you learned alot on your own time and feel they are not looking out for you after talking to them then shop around and you will find out real fast what you can get in the workforce.

 

HTH

[Mike Mattera - TFM]

Ron makes a good point if the company is investing in you, it's not pay in your pocket, but it's knowledge. And they cant take that away from you.

 

If someone is paying you while you get an education from them. That's a value to you. If you make an investment in personal time, classes, books or training CD's, they should take that into consideration for your worth to the company.

 

Mike Mattera

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Definitely need to take into consideration who's dime the education is on. As stated previously by my esteemed forum members, if the dime is on them, your pay off will be long term. If it's on your dime, the pay off should be a little more in the near term.

 

As for an exact dolar figure... there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many factors companies take into consideration. Cost of living in the area, average wages in the area for the type of work you do, trends in the industry, etc.... SOmebody that makes say $25/hr here in Southern California, may only be able to scratch say $15-$18 in Phoenix, or even less in Nampa, Idaho. It's so relative to where you are located, and other factors.

 

HTH

[Tom Szelag]

Sounds like you might have a similar spot as me..

 

I'm an engineering student, been doing the Mastercam thing for about a year now. 2, 3, and 4 axis mill programming in addition to manual stuff. Set up the stock and tools, run the machine. Work with aluminum, mild steel, stainless steel, engineering plastics, and within the next week I'll be getting into some Invar. Parts always come out nice.

 

$12.50/hr here.

[ToolMan184]

As a shop owner i would say this:

 

As most have stated it depends on the area your in. Then did you learn on your dime or theirs.

 

You say you can make parts consistantly which is good. But, can you do it in a time that the company makes a profit or does it take you 3 times longer than someone with 10 years experience. Not trying to be cruel, just from a owners point of view.

 

What is your scrap rate?

 

And not to be cruel again, but, what I see in the younger generation is different than my generation. I had to earn my way to the top. The younger generation expects it now.

 

I have intrviewed guys that tell me they have 5 years cnc experience. I always ask what G00 means and M06. They look at me like Im asking a trick question.

 

If you have been doing this 1 year, you still have years of knowledge to gain. If the company you work for is fair, cares about you, and treats you with respect. What else do you want? I have 4 guys I had lost over the past 5 years that are back saying "You know the grass wasnt greener on the other side".

 

I would say if you are only in it for the money, you will have a rough future.

 

I just get bent out of shape when I see questions like this. Most employees have no clue what they actually cost a company. And most would bail out on you for $0.25 or $0.50 on the hour.

[john_070]

Good points tool man. But alot of the time you have to move around to make jumps in the pay scale. plus you get to see new type's of work and different methods of manufacturing. My last job was whatever you hired in at is where you stayed. I was there for 4 years. before it clicked in my head that it was a dead end. Make's me mad because I care about my performance. And the company basically $hit on me.

[ToolMan184]

On that point John, I can understand looking around. Especially if the company treats ya as a slave.

 

As far as the different methods and types of experience, here is what I told every shop I worked for. I will work for you for at least 2 years, but I will make no guarantees after that. Most was OK with that. If everyone is up front from the beginning there should not be any surprises. If a company tells ya something and you do your part, then the company fails to hold up there end. I would be gone too.

 

My average guy has over 15 years experience. I take care of them and they take care of me. We have all suffered through tough times. But, we all survived together. Our pay scale in our area is below the national average. But, my companies pay scale is well above the area average. Thats why we have the good guys.

 

I just wish the younger guys getting into the trade would look at more than money. With a good company, you may not actually see the pay in your check. But what do they provide for you? Maybe insurance, vacation, holidays, training, schooling just to name a few. There is way more than the paycheck thing to take into consideration is all im saying.

[Guest]

quote:

---

I just wish the younger guys getting into the trade would look at more than money.

---

I agree with this to a point. In today's world, just making ends meet if you're a single guy with a studio apartment and a moderate car payment and no real other bills can be a daunting and challenging task.

 

15.00 hr x 40 hrs = 600.00 gross

single claiming zero prolly take home about $375 - $400 after health insurance if it's available for you.

 

400 x 4.33 = 1732

 

800 rent

275 car

150 car insurance

 

that 1225 a month before food and bills.

 

It doesn't leave much for a young guy to do.

 

I will be 40 this year and speaking for myself this is the single longest job I have ever held, be 4 yrs in Sept. Only 2 jobs did I make it almost 3 years. I would not have accumulated the knowledge or experience that I have had I not jumped around. To this day if I see a young guy lets say under 30, who has worked in one place his entire career, I make the "assumption" his wealth of knowledge is limited. Simply because all he knows is how his company approached something. Give me a guy who has good references and has job shopped most of his career and I'll generally take my chances on him first. There is much to be said for loyalty but in todays world many but certainly not all companies are simply concerned with the bottom line.

 

It seems to me the days of working for one company and retiring from that company are LOOOOOONg gone. The way I see it, somewhere in the mid seventies to early eighties there was a shift in how companies treated employees and visa versa, successful employees consider themselves independent contractors and as such are ready to look out for themselves and their families first.

 

So look around and interview, quietly, to gage your worth to companies. Do not just jump for a dollar, weigh the offer, and most of all make sure you are up to the job that is offered. Most companies, if they bring you in at a decent wage and you cannot do the job, you will certainly find yourself looking for work again, but this time without the comfort of already having a job and not having to sometimes take the first thing that comes your way.

 

JM2C

[jeff]

I'm almost 36 y/o and been with the same company since 1988.

Sure me and the boss have had our screaming matches because we're both bullheaded and he's a control freak,but I am loyal and he pays me good.

As far as learning Mcam goes,when we bought it about 8 yrs or so ago,I went to the 3 day class,and forgot most of that within a week or two.

BUT I was allowed to take the hasp home at night and play with it on my own,and now the only thing stopping me is the fact that we only have level 2.

I can now edit posts to have them show what I want,Been programming cnc lathes since 1988 and cnc mills since 1993.

 

My point is this,learn whatever and whenever you can because knowledge is power.

Hands on programming is also a must to get to the top level!

Now I just wish that some companies require engineers 5ys exp of programming and operating before desiging the crap that I see.

The prices of thing would certainly drop quite a bit.

[highrevtrev]

toolman,

I want to make something clear...

I never said that I entered this industry for the money or that money was all i cared about. I love to program, and i think of running the machine like playing with a toy. I really like doing this kind of work. The best thing about being a machinist/programmer is making things and seeing them made from blueprint to actual part. I only make $.25 above min. wage. I was thinking about asking for a raise and i just wanted to see what others with more experience thought.

 

Thank you all for you input, i can always accept rough but true answers. But again I never mentioned anything about not being paid enough or not being appreicated, just wanted some simple feedback and info before i talk to my boss about a raise.

 

Trev

[tryon]

You better call him right now and ask for that raise. Dont even wait till monday.

[Gary]

Yeah crap that is bull walmart and meyers does better than that. Just out of curisosity how old are you. I had a year experiance and went hunting. Got a big raise for that. Just make sure you do actually have another job. I went to a big shop for an interview for programming and running their mazak lathes and they told me I was qualified to run their saw. I took a job down the street from their and loved the look on their face when they stopped by a couple years later with some prints to quote and were referred to me to qoute then later make their parts. It was priceless. I can sure say experiance is what will get you the money and until you got a few years nobody will take you serious. But you should definally be making more than someone saying do you want fries with that. This country is going to hell. A car salemen makes 70k for lying to you and we build parts to make the dang things for lots less. I don't get it noone knows whats involved or how much of our own time and money (college ect) goes into this trade. I would feel guilty if I f'ed people for a living and alot of our country is heading that way. Sorry for the rant just along week.

[Thad]

Trevor,

 

Based on your description of your work experience, you'd make around $15/hr at our shop. That would rapidly increase upon learning more 3D programming.

 

Minimum wage??? They pay around $8/hour to close at Burger King!!!

 

Go gettem' Trevor!

 

Thad

[Tim Johnson]

Trev,

Don't bother asking for a raise. Get out and find a new job now. With that kind of pay even if you do get a raise it's not going to be worth much, just another opportunity for him to rip you off for another year or until you beg for another raise. I consider people like your boss as nothing but bloodsuckers.

[kinglouie V]

+10000 (or more) to john and tim!!

 

Jeff, I don't know how you can stand it. I'm not knocking you, don't take it that way. I was making 12.5 hr 12 yrs ago. Don't bother asking for it GO GET IT! I've probably been using MC for about 10-11 years and there's still stuff I'm learning (started out in oil patch). Walk in confident >TELL THEM< what you want and be prepared to deliver. I wouldn't know half what I do now without moving around some. Probably wouldn't be making $ what I do either. Just follow the advice of having a job before you quit. BTW I read today that Seattle was the #1 over priced city in the country. Wow SD, CA was down a few this year. Figured LA would top that list.

[crazy^millman]

You my friend need to leave and go somewhere else. You have people who care only about themsleves and not you peroid. In this day in age where people who care and have ability and want for you to be treated with such disrpect is just uncalled for.(bad pay is disrepect in my book) I would take a couple days off and put your fellers out. Get an offer in writing and then take it back to where you work if you want ot keep working there. Show it to them tell them to match that offer or you are gone. You sir are in the business of you just like they are in the business of themselves. You need to make what you need just like them and always look at it that way. I say the days of job security are gone there is only ability security so with more ability you secure you will always have a job even if where you work no longer exist!!!

[jeff]

KingLouie,

I may have misled you....

I am paid pretty handsomely for my duties.

Would like a less abrasive enviornment to work in though.

It would be nice to actually like coming to work.

I love what I do,but sometime just don't like "where" I do it at.

Im prolly not the only one though.

[john_070]

+1000 to what jeff said. jeff have you ever worked at master mfg?

[kinglouie V]

quote:

---

I love what I do,but sometime just don't like "where" I do it at.

---

no your not the only one. which is why I have moved around and not stayed in the same place. We are the same age incidently, and I can't imagine being in the same place as when I finished high school.

 

I'm lucky enough to have a very decent place to work now. I have a little quite corner to program and my boss and I have a good working relationship. with average pay to boot, what else is there = no more moving.

 

quote:

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Would like a less abrasive enviornment to work in though.

---

What?? an abrasive shop??

 

Honestly, I've never seen one that didn't have an abrasive enviroment at some level. Shop floor kinda like the locker room. Some snap towels others get snapped.

 

[ 07-23-2005, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: kinglouie ]

[Steel Surgeon]

At a quick glance I thought you made $25.00.

 

Wow am I surprised that it was only .25 above minimum wage.

 

Don't call him, go right to his house . In fact you should seriously start looking for a new job. If you current boss didn't think about the money then he never will.

[ToolMan184]

highrev,

 

I was in no way saying it wasnt for the right reason. Or that you should not look around. Just make sure you can do what ya say ya can when you go to look. Undersell yourself a little and prove you can do more. If the shop owner doesnt notice you know you not in the right place.

 

As far as $0.25 over min wage is uncalled for. My sawing guy and delivery guys make more than that. But it depends some on your speed and quality. There are alot of factors involved that no one here knows. But no matter if it takes you over twice as long to do a job you deserve more than min wage.

 

Remember this, If you buckle down and committed to this trade. You will rub it your bosses face some day. Trust me I know.....hehe He will see what he let go, and you may make it better for the next guy that gets employeed there. You my friend may start a trend. At least maybe wake them up. And trust me we all compete against each other, but its still like a family.

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

But again I never mentioned anything about not being paid enough or not being appreicated, just wanted some simple feedback and info before i talk to my boss about a raise.

---

Sounds like you got a good attitude,

With a year under your belt, and the work going good.

A raise should'nt be out of the question provided the

boss sees things the same way.

I spent my first year making minimum wage and like

a sponge I absorbed all I could.

If the money thing don't work out, as it did'nt for

me, consider a move.

 

quote:

---

Just make sure you can do what ya say ya can when you go to look.

---

Where I do agree with this statement, I don't believe

you should undersell yourself. Confidence is key,

tell them what you want, you know what your capable

of. The biggest thing I've learned is rare is the

shop that give regular reviews and raises.

And if thats the case a little hoppin' while your

young not only bumps you pay scale, but also exposes

you to more/different ways of machining.

 

PEACE

[Andy]

In the end, if you love this trade and stay in it, you will never be rich. 25 years ago things were better for machinists (more work and more money when adjusted for inflation) and they still would never be rich. It is much worse today for the average guy. The world has changed. Manufacturing is not what it used to be. Here, we feel like the trade is winding down. In China I bet the average guy feels the trade is winding up.

So, if you love this trade and are willing to put your heart in it and are frugal and have realistic expectations, you will always be able to do the kind of work you love. Most people dislike the kind of work they do AND make lousy money.

I eventually became self employed and work 12 hours+ a day 6 days and was lucky enough to stay in business and money is not a problem now(after 30 years in business).

 

As far as your present situation, always try to make the most you can make, you owe it to yourself. When you ask for a raise have a rational plan B in place.

 

Good luck,