back to 9-for now

[medaq]

quote:

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How can you just "fiddle with it" and assume its no better?....you've never been trained on it and have no idea how to use it yet so how can you make any assumption whether its better or worse?

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Well you are making assumptions on my learning ability, what I have learned, what I am reading, my level of knowledge in mastercam, my ability to program, and a whole mess of stuff.

 

I do not have to agree with your views of mastercam 10. I am very glad mastercam 10 fits your needs. I just feel the new interface is not finished. And until then I can not support it.

 

You have to rememeber I am a mastercam at heart programmer. And by no means am I bashing x. I feel from a person who is extremely fast at programming, very competent in programming, and a owner of a shop. That I have to make decisions based on more than probably you. I have to base decisions on what we are capable of doing, ( which I have never found a part I can not do with the present version of mastercam I have now) I have to base how much programming I will allocate to a job. And with that I can not see enough incentive yet to justify the maintenance costs and upgrade costs to upgrade to version 10 to do something slower imho.

 

Now as a employee which I am guessing you are. You have more freedom to say x is better, to better your resume. Where as a owner we dont have that luxury. We see the bills every month, and every month we have to make a certain amount of money in a certain amount of time to get the job done. And Yes with fiddling with x like I have done with every version, by drawing and making tool paths. To see how fluent and intuitive it is. I can base my decisions on which is better. And right now as a company I can not see it making me more profit, and that is what it is all about. Seeing a better product that you (know) will make a profit rather than (hoping). Version 6-7 you saw the huge benefits in the upgrade, 7-8 again you saw them, 8-9 is more negotiable. and 9-10 You dont see that at all. I still feel You bring back the menu tree to 10 along with the top bar that adjusts to which portion of the tree you are in, Would greatly speed up time in x rather than looking for icons.

 

Jim

[ToolMan184]

quote:

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Now as a employee which I am guessing you are. You have more freedom to say x is better, to better your resume. Where as a owner we dont have that luxury.

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Yes, I am a shop owner as well. But how does being an employee or a shop owner differ in the way people use X. From what I have seen 90% of the problems people have with X is user related. Getting a handle on the new way things are done. If you want to stay in the 80s with a DOS system, have at it. I for one as a SHOP OWNER refuse to be left behind. Its called investing in your future. M2C

[stanektool]

The only thing I have to say this is the most painfull transtion on software that we have ever been though. Way to many bugs in first release and subsequent releases.

Maybe in time as our programmers become more familiar with the MX it will improve our productivity. Rightnow it is costing us time and money. Seems like every day a new problem arises.

Hoping MR1 will solve some of our issues.

[d0gFartz]

quote:

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Yes, I am a shop owner as well. But how does being an employee or a shop owner differ in the way people use X. From what I have seen 90% of the problems people have with X is user related. Getting a handle on the new way things are done. If you want to stay in the 80s with a DOS system, have at it. I for one as a SHOP OWNER refuse to be left behind. Its called investing in your future. M2C

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Exactly....well said, its kinda like the old fram commercial said "You can pay me know or you can me later". Best to keep up with times or you'll be outside looking in and spending lots more to become up to date

[d0gFartz]

quote:

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The only thing I have to say this is the most painfull transtion on software that we have ever been though. Way to many bugs in first release and subsequent releases.

Maybe in time as our programmers become more familiar with the MX it will improve our productivity. Rightnow it is costing us time and money. Seems like every day a new problem arises.

Hoping MR1 will solve some of our issues.

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Out of curiosity how many days were your guys trained on X?

[stanektool]

The four mains guys had 4 days each at CNCsoftware with various levels. Some are doing better than others. Today we found a problem with the 2D sweep path. We used this hundreds if not a thousand times in MC9 with no issues. Today it crashed. I posted a thread earlier today asking if there was a bug related to the 2D-Sweep path. Like I said I believe it will get better with time.

Some of the guys want to switch back to MC9 but I tell to keep forging forward on X. Because if don't use it you will never become proficient at it. This is the software for the future.

[LaszloK]

I am using X only. My older computer didn'r support X and I intentionally did not load v9 on this computer. There were several times I wanted to load v9 and even more moments of frustration with the inconsistencies, crashes, printing problems, and all the things mentioned in this thread. I have gotten better and I hope the future releases will make the software better. It has not been a whole bunch of fun with deadlines and lost data and files but I think there is more good than bad in the new interface. My speed is almost up to v9 usage and will only get better. We all have to do what is best and I think that moving ahead with X is my best bet.

[medaq]

quote:

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But how does being an employee or a shop owner differ in the way people use X.

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Please dont put words in my mouth, When have I said this? I have said as a employer versus employee. Where the employee only needs to worry about receiving a pay check. He will be more aggresive to sticking in new software into the shop. With out realizing how this could or will affect the bottom end. Since it will not affect them financialy they dont care. Ask any employee the same question a employer will ask them selves. If I install this software and start using it, is it worth, how much I will lose in productivity. Now take that employee and tell him his/her paycheck might be cut 50% depending on how good he/she is at making this new software work. I wonder how many would be so aggresive to switching software.

 

Jim

[gcode]

quote:

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Since it will not affect them financialy they dont care

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You don't think much of your employees do you??

I care very much about my employeer's bottom line.

If my boss isn't making money, its a matter of time till I'm looking for work.

[Storkman]

Lovin X here. Took 9 right off the computer today. Hadn't used it since August, why keep it.

 

Teh bird is content wit X

[medaq]

No actually I think very highly of my 2 programmers, but it took alot of weeding to find these 2 dedicated men. Besides if I did not take care of them, they would not have been with us for 7 years now... But you are saying, you have never seen one employee out for them selves? Who really do not care except making their paycheck? I find that funny since I saw that in alot of places that I worked for..

 

 

Jim

[ToolMan184]

quote:

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I care very much about my employeer's bottom line.

If my boss isn't making money, its a matter of time till I'm looking for work.

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Nuff said

 

+1000 gcode

[gcode]

quote:

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But you are saying, you have never seen one employee out for them selves

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Everyone is looking out for themselves, including me...., but good employees look out for the bottom line too. The ones that don't are the ones who get the axe when layoffs come around.

[Guest]

Wait a minute.

 

 

You mean someone else besides the owner can concern themselves with the bottomline(their job)

 

 

Wow, who da thunk it?

 

You have to look out for #1, if you don't no one else will. Looking out for yourself means making sure your boss/owner is making the money he needs or your both SOOL.

[ToolMan184]

Here is how it works in our shop. You scratch my back and I scratch yours.

 

We take care of our employees and they in return take care of us (the company).

[medaq]

Obviously the way I am typing seems to irritate people. I dont always convey my thoughts on paper the way I am in person. Have to remember when I am typing most of the time I have a happy face. Which does not always gets transfered to your thoughts.

 

I am just stating though. There are people almost in every company, who frankly dont care about the company fully, And think the boss is always getting rich on their hard labor. And are jealous at the perks the boss receives. Also they never fully understand the stresses of the job, of maintaining payroll, medical, workmans comp, electricity, machine payments, material costs and on and on. Some of these guys are the ones at 3:30 are running out the door, instead of finishing a job that could take 30 more minutes. And you are right "good" employees help look out for the wealth of the company. But for every shop I have been in, Seems like this was about 10% of the work force. And that is why most companies like my self, when they find those good idividuals who are helping push a company are the last ones to ever be let go.

[Beck]

I am an aggresive "gimme the new stuff" guy when it comes to software. But was I glad to go back to V9.1. I actually enjoyed going into work again. What a relief to get back to something that was stable. I really gave it my best. When it came to attempting simple things in X, I was failing and costing $$$$$$$$ for my company. I am now insisting on classroom training since my tiome at work (and at home) is too valuable.

One Frustrated Programmer! Beck

[N3526J]

I feel your pain there Beck.

 

After 3months of X...I'm at strike X and outta there as of today. Welcome home V9.

 

Dan

[Ryeker]

And all this time I thought I was alone....! I am not afraid of change, happens all the time... but... Every time I have to program a part I give it a shot in MCX then after the usual "what the hell...?" happens a few times I end up programming in V9. I have found that MCX has been a complete waste of my time & money (yes my money, I am the owner of this little Tool and Die Shop). I paid for maintenance as I was assured that I would get MCX before Christmas last year, it arrived 9 months later & full of bugs... (Will not do the maintenance thing again!). MCX looks nice but I think it is garbage in it's present state. I believe that MasterCAM is trying to cater to the 5 axis users and forgetting about the "little" guys who run "regular" CNC machines, don't believe me..??? then what the heck is that "machine definition" all about...???????

[d0gFartz]

quote:

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I believe that MasterCAM is trying to cater to the 5 axis users and forgetting about the "little" guys who run "regular" CNC machines, don't believe me..??? then what the heck is that "machine definition" all about...???????

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Well if your running v9 so effectivly then you have a post i assume....uptext it like the manual walks you thru doing and you'll have a machinecontrol definition for your machine

 

quote:

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I am now insisting on classroom training since my tiome at work (and at home) is too valuable.

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Once again there it is. No training so with it comes the frustration. Seems lots of people just blame the software as soon as they cant figure something out when alot of the time its lack of training.

[mig]

I just learning ver X, and so far i bit for 9.

I guess nice options and ideas from ver 9 should be transfer to X .

For this moment (this is only my opin.) still lot of mess in X

Rehards

[Chris Flint Two Ft Pty Ltd]

Surely the smart thing CNC systems "could and should" have done was to ask users what they wanted.

This is basic marketing.

Making something new and then thrusting it on the consumers, is just not the right way.

And for the arguement regarding DOS and Windows, do you guy's making these references know that Windows is not really an operating system, but a friendly GUI that works on top of DOS, so DOS windows = same thing.

I do think the difference between Microsoft and CNC systems is when Microsoft screw up ( and they do) they fix it damn quick, even though they OWN the PC market and could be very tardy if they wanted to be and we would all wait, this does not happen.

I have X but cannot use is at all because it cannot interface with ART, when it does I am sure I will bite the bullet and get on with X as CNC systems are not going to release any updates for ART ( and I have paid for maintenance) but I really hope that all the grumbling from my "esteemed forum collegues" has got CNC systems to solve thes issues "before" I get to use X.

And finally to the last jerk remark about "older people" I say " in order to be old and wise, you first have to be young and foolish"

[Carl Hessig]

We ditched v9 a month after X came out when we got new 64bit computers. Didn't even try to load v9 because after a month of playing with X we knew X was where we wanted to be. We did't go to any training did't have time, too much work. The basic concept is the same for X as it was for v9

just had to get use to a different interface.

I'm 48 and been working in mold shops for close to 30 years. I don't think age has anything to do with being able to learn new things. Most of the things I do no one has taught me, I had to teach my self. If its not that way others then I would say their not at the top of their trade.

 

Came across a mastercam dealers web site that had a saying on sending people to training that I know to be true.

------------------------------------------

Remember if you send a dud most likely you

will get a dud back.

------------------------------------------

 

MCX is not that hard to learn. Keep a positive attitude, look for help here on the forum if you need it, and don't give up.

 

Carl

[Ryeker]

quote:

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Well if your running v9 so effectivly then you have a post i assume....uptext it like the manual walks you thru doing and you'll have a machinecontrol definition for your machine

 

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You bet old chap, I have a solid post for V9, Never had an issue with it at all. I think the machine definition is going a little to far... My take on this is, I don't need MasterCAM to think for me whether the part is to large for the machine (why else do I have to put in axis info etc..?) I want code to make the part, no frills, no fuss,

 

Quote:

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Once again there it is. No training so with it comes the frustration. Seems lots of people just blame the software as soon as they cant figure something out when alot of the time its lack of training.

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In answer to this quote... We pay good money for the software, more money for maintenance and now even more for training..! In truth it's not the interface that I have a problem with (the dialog boxes are very similar from MCX to MC9) it's the fact that it's buggy, crashes and has "random" issues. Some of these things can be (maybe) related to the fact that all my native files come from Autodesk Inventor 10 but they work in V9 when (note the word "when") MCX drops the ball.

[gcode]

quote:

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why else do I have to put in axis info etc..?

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Machine and Control definitions are laying the groundwork for all kinds of cool stuff like component crash dectection, dynamic high feed machining and visualization of spindle and machine components during backplot and verify sessions.

None of that is possible without a machine definition.

Of course this is overkill if you're just looking for quick and dirty 2D toolpaths.

 

This thread is really an eyeopener... I'm stunned at how quick some folks cut and run in the face of new stuff.