Looking for higher end cam package

[Redfire427]

Hey all, first time trying this forum. I have used Mastercam since version 3 and have had great success and we are currently using X2. As much as I love all the new high speed toolpaths and functionality, I find we are just not able to prepare programs fast enough for our Makino's.

Processing time is brutal and we are looking for the best surface finishes so naturally our tolerances for the toolpaths are set very small. I am wondering if a more expensive package is the way to go to speed thing up. I am going to take a look at Work NC and Tool Cam. Can anyone offer an opinion of either as an addition to Mastercam?

[rgollar]

I have heard from other people in the trade that work nc is excellent for surfaceing compared to mastercam. I can only say that from what I have heard from other people. The Place that my work bought there cncs from also used work nc to program with to demo there cncs. They said it worked better for complex surfacing. Like I said im only going by hear say.

[Guest]

well to the best of my knowledge neither of those package could be considered "higher end"

 

Have you looked at Moldplus for Mastercam?

[Bruce Caulley]

Will mouldplus make the processing quicker John? Processing speed was personally my biggest beef with MC. As for higher end packages I am currently using UG and the processing time is excellent. Interface is crap, and it is hard work just getting simple things done, but a lot less time spent waiting for things to happen.

 

US$0.016

 

Bruce

[peon]

My coworker programs 3d in Powermill. It is MUCH faster than Mastercam! But.....you can't beat Mastercam's 2d capabilities. Mastercam is also a design software. You can't alter geometry in Powermill. He uses both softare packages to program most of his parts. I have Powermill loaded on my tube, but I haven't had the time to explore it yet.

[peon]

Oh, I also have Unigraphics loaded on my pc too. But the owner won't pay for training so that is on the backburner. It looks like a nightmare to learn.

[gcode]

Hypermill from OpenMinds of Germany (??) is amazing as is the cost. Both performance and price will blow your mind.

[DavidB]

The last shop I worked at we did all surface machinig in Powermill procecing times where 8 times faster than MC on tests I ran, this was 3 years ago. We used MC for all drilling and 2D work, this is where Mastercam can not be beaten.

 

MC's HST are great they look just like powermills toolpaths but the processing time in MC is a killer. CNC have improved it, lets hope it gets even faster.

 

Overall though for a package to do everything I could not recomend a better package than MC.

[Thee Rickster ™]

I know someone who has both MCX2 and Work NC.

He does not use either for modeling,

(Kubotek and SW) are his main ones.

 

He doesen't brag about either. He has a few more

softwares (Visi and Cimatron E)He also is a VX

Dealer. He and his crew of 4 use all of them for different reasons. (relatively equally.)

 

He says he'd use 'pencil cam' if it made one of

his customers happy.

 

Our shop is quite happy with MC

 

JM2C

[Guest]

No Bruce you are correct it won't help processing time, I Was thinking easy to work with molds but if processing time is the culprit, no that won't help.

 

NX's processing time with complex toolpath caluculation has been impressive.

 

I had one path that took 45 minutes in MC, same style path took same step downs and step overs took 7 minutes.

[Redfire427]

We do not use Mastercam for modelling as our engineers use ProE. As some of you have stated in other posts importing from ProE in X2 is a mess. I'm sure that will be addressed in next maintenance release. All I want is a system that is somewhat automated to get things done faster. 99% of our work is 3D with lots of detail. Due to the amazing speed of the Makino's, there is no way programmers can keep up to the machines. We have five seats of Mastercam and 4 Makino's.

 

Hypermill is another system I will take a look at. I have heard of Visi but have not investigated.

Some of these other systems are 3 times the price of Mastercam and I guess that is why I referred to them as higher end. You must be getting something for all that extra coin?

 

I see no one has replied about Cam tool. I have personaly seen toolpaths and parts cut by this software and I must say it produces the best surface finishes I have ever seen. Absolutely blemish free with no need to polish. I am going to test this one for speed but it is way up there in price.

 

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

[Hardmill]

quote:

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I see no one has replied about Cam tool.

---

For stickly 3D Camtool kicks @ss. Its specifically built

for surfacing. Hyper-mill is great for the 5axis stuff but

is waaayyy cumbersome for the simple things.

 

I would have to say Camtool would be a perfect compliment to Mastercam.

One cant replace the other , but both would work great together.

 

JM(.50)C

 

 

PEACE

[Thee Rickster ™]

quote:

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I would have to say Camtool would be a perfect compliment to Mastercam.

---

I agree, Visi is another that would.

[cadcam]

SO far what I have seen of VisiCam from a local mold shop I am not impressed at all. after I showed them what they could do in MC they bought MC and are leeting Visicam slid behind.

 

JM@C

[Thee Rickster ™]

I had two parts(molds)recently outsourced and

they were done in Visi. They looked alright good

blending, nice finish.

 

I already redid one in MasterCam, because we did

not want to outsource the Engineering Changes

while I am a little slow.

 

I would have to say MY total re-cut in Mastercam

is obviously better and more impressive

[medaq]

Look at tebis.

 

I have a friend who uses it and had a demo at my shop. If i where doing 3d molds day in and day out tebis absolutely smokes mastercam.

 

Jim

[Watcher]

Hi there!

 

Dear Prosi,

 

Mastercam is not perfect, as all we know, but don´t expect miracles by switching to a high end stuff. I have been working now with PRO MFG and in the past with Mastercam, UG and CATIA, PowerMill and Cimatron. Among all them, IMHO, Mastercam has the best coverage from 2 up to 5 axis strategies, and an outstanding 2D support, which, IMO, solves at least 50% of the situations, in most cases.

CATIA and UG in some 5x toolpaths simply smokes Mastercam, but in the most of cases (depending mainly of your product), Mastercam you do whatever you want too, and very well.

UG and CATIA swarf strategies are outstanding, but swarf is not all in a CAM system. Most of people use to asset a CAM system by its capabilities for impeller machining, complex surfacing, and amazed with these possibilities, they use to forget the estimating of the simple things as well, because you do not start a part by using swarf and 5x flowline machining.

Normally, we have to rough it, drill it...

My company chose PRO MFG as a CAM, due to some features which only a high end software could deliver. As a CAM system PRO MFG sucks, it is a piece of $hit. But it´s high end.

Another CAM systems based in APT/CLDATA like UG, CATIA, etc, in short, the most of high end solutions, can bring you some headaches in terms of post-processing, specially in the beggining and startup.

IMHO, Mastercam MP language can take you beyond in terms of high customizable code output, I dare to say, second to none in this arena.

Remember, a good CAM system is 50% of the deal.

I personally prefer a low/mid-end CAM and a excellent post for it and for my machines instead of a high-end solution with a weak post, which would not use neither the potential of my machines, nor of my CAM system. During the demos, the salesman use to say that his software can do everything that your old one couldn´t, but after fill in their pockets with a lot of money, they will let you down concerning post processors.

And then, probably you gonna have to spend more 20K bucks in a dedicated post solution as ICAM POST, GPOST, Intellipost, and so on. And even with these good solutions, do not expect the same possibilities in terms of output customization. APT based posts are complex, and the macros used by these post builders too.

In your shoes, I´d take a deep look into Cimco HSM, which as far as I know (Never used it though), extends greatly Mastercam´s HSM capabilities, with tool retraction policies and a lot of great stuff, and the most important: lower (by far) calculation times.

Sincerely, before switching to a high end solution, with a huge learning curve, expensive trainings and support, and so on..., consider this...

 

JMTC

 

[ 03-19-2007, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Watcher ]

[crazy^millman]

FYI watcher the HSM stuff in Mastercam now is the Cimco HSM stuff.

 

HTH

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...As some of you have stated in other posts importing from ProE in X2 is a mess...

---

I would not classify it as a mess. To me IGES from Pro/E is a mess. A mess IMHO is something that makes it nearly impossible to get good machinable gemoetry from the import. Native Pro/E sur it brings in all the planes and makes the part initially look like a porcupine, but it is VERY easy to move all those planes to another level, turn the level off and voila you have a good clean solid model.

 

But yes, it has been addressed in X2-MR1 (from the parts I have brought in at least).

 

 

JM2C

[Watcher]

quote:

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FYI watcher the HSM stuff in Mastercam now is the Cimco HSM stuff

---

Well Ron, that´s brand new for me. If so, there´s nothing else to do.... fall in the precipice....

 

[YoDoug®]

quote:

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FYI watcher the HSM stuff in Mastercam now is the Cimco HSM stuff.

---

Cimco HSM has the adaptive clearing strategy. I downloaded the demo. Very Cool roughing tool paths with unbelievable feedrates possible.

 

I wish this was part of Mastercam HSM.

[gcode]

quote:

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HSM stuff in Mastercam now is the Cimco HSM stuff

---

I think Mastercam bought the HS stuff in X from Cimco, but the CimcoHS package has a lot more

stuff in in. Think of Mastercam HS as

Cimco High Speed Lite (very lite)

Mastercam HSM Performance Pack first with Adaptive Clearing

 

I'd love to add it to my Sim, but its a little

too pricy for me

[Scott Sizemore]

We do have Cimco HSM on our seats of MasterCam, trust me it processes much faster.

[crazy^millman]

Ok well stand corrected only part of it.

[Jeff Kemper]

Just curious. What computer hardware you runnin'?