Haas vs Makino

[MotorCityMinion]

Bob, just to let ya know, I'm not raggin on you specifically, I see this all the time with others jumipng on the bandwagon then distorting the topic. I like and hate the Haas at the same time. And I agree, I wish there were more American manufactuers doing this.

[Thee Rickster ™]

Just noticed this thread.

 

We have both of those exact machines here and knew that before so we bought the Makino.

 

BTW, you should practice pushing the load of the fly cut toward

the stationary jaw not the moving jaw of the vise....

 

 

You can buy rigid Hass machine that do better then the example video, but

i would never recomend a Hass machine since after be bought our A51 and PS95

[lifetimewarranty]

Keep in mind, that you would also have a higher resale value on the Makino. Ever looked at the price of a used HAAS?

I tend to see super high priced used haas which seems to baffle me.

 

I am frustrated and embarrassed that the US doesn't offer anything better.

I will probably get beaten up for saying this but I just bought an American made 40x20 vertical called a Mazak

 

Would you say the VF2SS is a true high speed machine? I believed it and bought one.

Fool you once...

 

Would you say the VM3 is a true mold machine? I believed it and bought one of these too and I am not happy about it.

Fool you twice...

 

I do still own one Haas and my goal is to help others in the market make a more informed decision instead of just looking at $$$ and getting sticker shock.

 

I was fooled as well with the SS claims and like you won't be fooled again!

 

Good video btw...can't wait to see more. It will really open peoples eyes seeing the two machines literally side by side with the same tooling and programs yet quite different outcomes. The other thing to mention as you have illuded to is the real price. How much of a percentage difference was it? I believe that Haas comes in under 20 percent different than the (way way better) competition. When Haas used to be 45-55 percent less that was something. 10-20percent....not so much

[GnoGueyJose]

I tend to see super high priced used haas which seems to baffle me.

They fit a certain market segment, and fit it well. That's why they've been successsful. Delivery on a new one is about 8-12 weeks out depending on the model from what the guy across the way says. That right there will drive up the price of used equipment.

 

I will probably get beaten up for saying this but I just bought an American made 40x20 vertical called a Mazak

I'll probably get beat up for saying this but... Mazak is the Japanese Haas.

[Mic]

Like mentioned earlier it isn’t a fair comparison. 30HP spindle vs 40Hp spindle just to name one thing.

 

Both low end machine like Haas and Fadal and high end machines like Makino, Mori and Matsuura has their place.

 

I totally agree that the high end machine can do everything that the low end machine do much better.

 

But if the parts are simple enough then sometimes it’s cheaper to machine them on a “cheap” machine.

 

For a new shop it’s also a great stepping stone. Start with a Haas, make some money, buy a high end machine and make more money faster.

[Machineguy]

yea, that ^.

 

Bob,

I have the same machine. Ive run a Haas since '96. They are a lot better now.

The only beef I have is the chip system. The new ones can be bought with a 4 augar system.

I can fill the machie up with chips in a very short time.

The machine is what it is. You run it as fast as it can take it, but not like the better machines. Stay within the limits and it works fine.

I'll take a Haas over a Fadal or Hurco ANY DAY.

 

Ive run the Mori's, Makino's ect. but at this job I got what they bought. It was brand new when I got here. No Issues in running.

Soon we will be adding on to the CNC side. I look forward to some serious machines to do the production. Looking at okuma or Mazak vertical's.

 

MachineGuy

[Colin Gilchrist]

Hi Bob,

 

I'd also recommend contacting Haas for a Horsepower/Torque curve diagram for that spindle. From what I remember on the Vector Drive spindles (10k), you don't even approach the max torque until around 7k rpm. So to really get the performance from that spindle, you need to run in the upper RPM ranges.

[Rotary Ninja]

The next time I am facing and contouring a large part I'll show you a video of what a small 20HP Haas VF-2 can do given the proper feeds and speeds. The windows are very cloudy though and I won't be able to hold the door open so you can see it because the chips will knock my phone out of my hand

[Redfire427]

Like mentioned earlier it isn’t a fair comparison. 30HP spindle vs 40Hp spindle just to name one thing.

 

Both low end machine like Haas and Fadal and high end machines like Makino, Mori and Matsuura has their place.

 

I totally agree that the high end machine can do everything that the low end machine do much better.

 

But if the parts are simple enough then sometimes it’s cheaper to machine them on a “cheap” machine.

 

For a new shop it’s also a great stepping stone. Start with a Haas, make some money, buy a high end machine and make more money faster.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the Makino PS95 is at the bottom of the Makino food chain. It is actually built in Taiwan under supervision from the Japanese factory. It is an extremely well built machine for the money. As for a cost comparison, I just used the online Haas machine quote and spec'd out a VM3 with the same equipment that comes standard on the Makino and the difference in price came to only $24K. In my opinion, the Makino is way more machine for just a small premium.

[Bob W.]

As for a cost comparison, I just used the online Haas machine quote and spec'd out a VM3 with the same equipment that comes standard on the Makino and the difference in price came to only $24K. In my opinion, the Makino is way more machine for just a small premium.

 

Bingo! Pretty much what I am getting at here. Were talking ~$25k difference. I am not comparing a $250k Makino to a $75k Haas... The question I am trying to answer is whether the performance difference between the two warrants a $25k premium. Maybe this video wasn't the best comparison but I will add another in the next few days. Maybe I should have just put the prices in the opening post...

[Bob W.]

.

[Rotary Ninja]

That will be great Bob. I'm looking forward to seeing the Makino do what it can do. I'd really like to see how the control is laid out as well. You think you could run through some settings on the Makino with a camera behind you? Maybe run a Probe routine from start to finish?

 

Thanks!

[mkd]

wow. didn't know the prices were so close.

Haas had better watch out...

and thanks for sharing (even though we're beating you up a little)

[taperlength]

Does the Makino have glass scales?

[Chris Rizzo]

Heck for that matter the Okuma/hardinge GX series of mills are also close to Haas pricing, and run circles around them. I've been cutting 1018 at 600 ipm on one.

 

FYI, for all the naysayers Bob is a stand-up guy and does some really nice work, and sure his test could have been this, that or the other thing different (torque curve). But thanks for sharing and cool to watch.

[#Rekd™]

You should send the video to HAAS!!!

 

Great test!!

[heavychevy2155]

If you do have the time can you cover some of the features of the Makino control and any other feature that you feel a worth mentioning? Like other have said, thank you for the video and thanks for taking time to do them.

[Bob W.]

Does the Makino have glass scales?

 

No scales, but it does have a spindle coolant chiller and core cooled ball screws that are under tension.

 

 

FYI, for all the naysayers Bob is a stand-up guy and does some really nice work, and sure his test could have been this, that or the other thing different (torque curve). But thanks for sharing and cool to watch.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Chris.

[Bob W.]

If you do have the time can you cover some of the features of the Makino control and any other feature that you feel a worth mentioning? Like other have said, thank you for the video and thanks for taking time to do them.

 

The ProP (Fanuc 0i) is definitely a step down from the Pro5 (Fanuc 31i) but I do like it, just not quite as user friendly. It comes with 9 block skips, which I love. It also has the macros, allows M198 to the flash drive, and I can utilize 9999 tool offsets on the Makino side but I can't store the offset values permanently. I also have side access to the tool magazine so I can load tools while the machine is running. the 220 gallon coolant tank is also nice.

[master blaster]

Nice post, our shop has both Haas and Makino's also but the models vary quite a bit so its nice to see what I would consider an apples to apples comparison. I do think that both companies have equally good service departments but have never seen an actual capability test between the two.

Hope to see more videos like this!

[Rotary Ninja]

The Makino uses Fanuc controls? That's pretty cool. They are my second favorite control to run. Much better than Mazak's ridiculousness LOL.