Am I asking for too much????

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

---

Guy who helps you push boards through the noisy thing.

---

LOL!!!

 

HMMMMMm..............I never seen a CNC planer afore....

 

 

quote:

---

One guy swore that someone was sabatoging his programs before they ran,

---

I had an employee that would do that.

He thought no one would be able to run the program except for him and so he made everyone of them crash.

 

Needless to say he didn't last too long....

 

 

Murlin teh fire his arse....

 

[ 12-10-2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Murlin ]

[chris m]

I actually had a night-shift temp guy tell me how he used to change an M03 to an M04 in other guys' machines when they went to the bathroom if he didn't like them [at a previous job]. He thought it was really funny. I told him if someone blew up one of my cutters and I found something like that in the program I was going to personally put his head through the f___ing wall on his way out the door. He said 'Oh, I'd never do that here...'.

 

Not twice you wouldn't.

 

We also had a guy who quit here a few years ago [before my time] that supposedly sprinkled a few Z-1.00 lines into proven programs on his way out. Pretty easy to make a real mess.

 

Holy thread hijack

 

C

[Andris Skulte]

Kathy,

If the new kid wants to learn, I think you guys should at least give him that chance. I got hired on to my current job, never having machined/programmed any parts, other than a no credit class in college, and never having used MasterCam before. There were no formal classes, and I was the guy that replaced the previous product designer & programmer. It didn't take too long to read through the owners manual, and start being productive. I was lucky that the general manager (my boss) gave me a chance to learn, and improve. If the kid is reading the manual & help files, and trying his best, I'd give him a shot. Maybe he's a quick learner, and you'll have someone to do your dog work in the future I ask questions all the time, but very rarely is it ever gonna be the same one. If he actually retains what he's told/taught (I wrote everything in a notepad that I flip back to sometimes) without having to ask the same thing a million times (uhhh, what's the G-code for rapid again?), you might have a keeper. If after a few weeks he's just another warm body in the office, and not starting to understand (some folks just don't get it... We've got a few machinists on the floor that want to edit the programs, and stop needing supervision, but they just don't want to even bother learning. How someone can push buttons on the CNC's all day, not understand how the program works, claims to want to learn, but never bothers, is beyond me). I'm done rambling.

[Brendan P]

quote:

---

I actually had a night-shift temp guy tell me how he used to change an M03 to an M04 in other guys' machines when they went to the bathroom if he didn't like them

---

What a looooosssseeeeeerrrrr!!!!

 

Maybe we should change the firing order on his distributor cap.

[kathy]

Thank you all again - great feedback!

 

I worked with him a little this morning, and he's coming along a bit. I think the key is that I did want him to take the initiative to look something up first, and than ask if he still didn't understand.

 

Co-Planer: when an entity, or a series of entities (such as a profile) resides on a plane that is parallel to a plane that another group of entities resides on. Think of a line that starts at 0,0,0 (x,y,z) to 1,1,0. Now think of another line that goes from 2,2,1 to 5,4,1. The first line lies on the Z0.0 plane. The second line lies on the Z1.0 plane. Even though the lines are different lengths, and are pointing in different directions, they are co-planer because the Z planes are parallel. If the second line’s second set of coordinates was 5,4,1.5, the lines are no longer co-planer! This applies to any set of planes, in any axis, and any type of geometry. Surfaces can be co-planes, but must be offset exactly!

 

Kathy

[Müřlıń®]

Thanks Kathy,

 

Took me a couple times reading that to understand what you mean, but I gotcha

 

 

quote:

---

Maybe we should change the firing order on his distributor cap

---

Wonder how many parts he would buy before he figured that one out, lol

 

 

Murlin teh doh!

[Rekd™]

Kathy,

 

Mayhaps you could suggest to him that if he has a problem, to come to you with at least 2 possible solutions/suggestions/ideas on how to go about it. It doesn't always work that way, but it will get him into the frameset of thinking for himself a bit more.

 

'Rekd

[Brendan P]

Kathy,

You gotta remember,being the Mfg. Engineer, Senior CNC Programmer,and being as smart as you are has to make one with less qualifications uneasy.

I know for a fact that I would feel like a 1st. grader next to you.

But this is only because I don't have extensive training in mastercam or some of the other software programs you know.

[TheePres]

Kathy...Parallel planes ??

[kathy]

quote:

---

Kathy...Parallel planes ??

---

Think Parallel Universe's... sorry - different time zone (da da da da da da da )

 

Three Pres -

 

Let's say a plane is defined by three points with all of the z coordinates of those points being Z0.0 All the geometry that is 'planer' to that plane have z coordinates of Z0.0. Now imagine a plane that is defined by three points with z coordinates Z1.0. All of the geomety that is planer to that plane is 1.0" away from the first set of geometry (in the Z axis direction), and is parallel to the first set of geometry. Therefor the planes are parallel. This holds true for planes that are 'at an angle' as well.

 

Imagine you are cutting a pocket into a plate. The top of the plate is Z0.0. The bottom of the pocket is a constant -.50Z, so the profile defining the pocket is co-planer to the top of the plate. Now cut another pocket inside the first pocket, offset by say, .375 and at a constant -.75 deep. Both defining profiles are co-planer with each other and the top of the plate.

 

The question came up when; the model part (the holding fixture was for) has multiple steps that I pocket out of the stock, than I contour the outside profile. 'Trainee' keep 'seeing' that the steps were at an angle to Z, and I kept showing him that the walls were indeed co-planer to the z axis. All you have to do is measure between two points to see the only delta difference is in the Z. In this case the walls were co-planer in the X,Y planes

 

hth

Kathy

Kathy

[chris m]

Alright, this is killing me. I hate to bitch about spellings and stuff, but isn't it co-planar?

[jbel]

From mathworld.com:

quote:

---

Geometric objects lying in a common plane are said to be coplanar.

---

quote:

---

Two planes that do not intersect are said to be parallel.

---

Two lines with the same x and y coordinates but different z coordinates are in parallel planes they are not coplanar.

 

sorry to nitpick

[Harryman]

quote:

---

isn't it co-planar?

---

Oh, Kathy was talking about the math thingy.

[Müřlıń®]

*in Scooby-doos voice*

 

Ruh-Roh........

 

Didn't mean to start an academic debate....heh

I was just trying to point out that some people,(including myself)may not understand terminology, but can machine. So I would give your trainee a few weeks.

 

I trained a few guys for a period of about 10 years. Some have it, Some don't.

 

Most of the guys I trained were strait out of high-school with zero experience in the machining world.

 

You will be able to tell with in a few weeks if you need to give him the boot.

 

I bluffed my way into a large mold shop in Henderson Co, NC back in the 70's. Never touched a mill or a surface grinder, never even heard of an EDM.

 

Within a month I was working on big TV and computer molds with the Journeymen, making my own electrodes, doing precision form grinding on slides and such.......

 

So you never know....

 

 

Murlin

[P_Scott]

Kathy,

 

Mathematically speaking, jbel is correct. Realistically, what was the reason for him wanting to change the Z-depths of the geometry? Hadn't you already designed the geometry so all he needed to do was select the profiles he needed for the toolpath? In your first post of this thread you stated that all the geometry had been done using Catia IV, then you added some profiles.

I agree with the general consensus to give the guy a chance but I'm confused as to why he needed to cahnge the geometry. Maybe I'm just slow. He should be able to just select the geo. for the toolpaths and fill in the necessary parameters. It's possible the "training" he received in his junior college was just a "glancing over" of Mastercam and what it can do but not any actual usage. Talk to your reseller and see if they have a class that can help him out. At least he's familiar with machinery so he shouldn't be at a complete loss. HTH

[rex miller]

you may get a dumb answer.

but thers never a dumb QUESTION !!!!!

[mold100]

I wish I never heard a dumb question, And I know I more than capable of a dumb answer.

[Andris Skulte]

There's never dumb questions, only dumb people.

[crazy^millman]

No sir there is no such thing as this

quote:

---

only dumb people.

---

I think you need to rethink this comment. I ask you to take a person who knows about doing surgey and you do what they do cuase you can't do it does that make you dumb. The ability to have intellgence has nothing to do with knowledge or pieces of paper you got hanging on the wall.

 

There are people that are suppose to be mentally handicapped tat can do math equation in seconds that takes most people years to do. Are they dumb? NO they are just intelllgent in way others are not.

 

The ablility to understand or do things the same as everyone esle in different for every person on this earth. If we look at the world the same way by knowing this little thing or that little thing then we may overlook the other things people may know. It is up to each of us professionals in this business to make others smarter by teaching, educating, and showing. We may have more knowledge and experience, but it never makes us smarter than anyone just more exprienced sometimes is all.

 

Crazy Millman

 

[ 12-12-2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Millman^Crazy ]

[kathy]

HI guys -

 

Peter Scott - hope this makes it clear about the profiles.

 

First - personal impressions of 'trainee' after a week and a half. He doesn’t listen to what you tell him.

 

The first job I gave him was to 'design' and program a simple holding fixture for a production part that I had already programmed and released to the shop. I gave him the Mastercam file for the part, told him to rename it to xxx, and create the fixture. Hence, the confusion on the profiles. He needed to isolate the part profiles, and pocket around an offset of those profiles leaving a boss on the plate. The part pocket will rest on this boss when machining the second side of the part. There are several holes that are drilled into the part stock @ setup A to bolt the part to the holding fixture on setup B. We released the holding fixture to the shop, and the machinist started comparing the two programs. 'Trainee' moved the above mentioned holes to a new location. Okay fine, but he was totally clueless that his change impacted the other program (for the part). Claimed to be unaware of the other program. Sorry, a programmer has to be a little more on top of things than that. Bare in mind it also took him three days to do this job.

 

Next, I gave him a fixture plate to program. This part has a drawing (AASC), and the part has a part number. Now, we have a strict numbering system for files here. I told him what the numbers were.

He brought the paperwork over so I could release it to the shop, and the numbers were wrong. I marked up the setup sheet in red. Told him to fix it. He went away to fix it, and brought everything back. It was still wrong. I asked him why he had trouble naming the files with these numbers? He said he didn't understand what file did what. So explained again, and wrote out the file names again.

 

140087100-03_00.mc9 (mastercam model file), 140087100-03_00.html (posted html setup sheet) & 140087100-03.kmo (g-code file).

 

Well, three times back and froth today and he still doesn't have the files named correctly.

He wanted to know why I came up with the part numbers. I explained briefly, but told him that the numbers that he will be using are assigned and all he had to do was apply them properly.

And that is the way for now, later when he gets his feet on the ground it may become clearer to him.

 

Murlin, I see your point of view, but this job is about programming. I draw the analogy to a draftsperson. He has to be able to convey his process (a released program) to a machinist. Of course knowing how to machine is essential. But being detail orientated, understanding how to read a print, how to communicate, how to listen is vital!

 

Last, but not least back to the co-planer / planer debate!! I always thought planer was geometry that was in the same plane. I guess we have always used it to define walls (parallel to the Z axis) that we could machine in a contour cur vs. surface machining. I was searching my memory for the math definitions, Thank you, jbel, for providing them. I love this forum!

 

Kathy

[chris m]

Alright

 

I now change my vote after hearing this update; dump his a$$.

 

I absolutely HATE people who don't pay attention when you teach them something.

 

C

[jbel]

Millman,

 

+10 on the attitude towards those who think there are 'dumb people'.

 

Nothing irritates me more than a person who thinks that their way is the only way of thinking and that if other people can't follow their thought process then they must be dumb.

 

In my experience, people with this attitude are usually insecure about either themselves or the quality of work they do. Instead of being open to all points of view and always in search of faster and better ways of doing things, they just plug away doing the same thing they always have, and then ridicule others when they make suggestions.

 

This is nothing personal to anyone who has posted here, just my own observations.

 

Everyone has something to contribute, be it the new guy who can't seem to get a simple program written or the old crusty veteran.

 

You never know maybe this kid will solve a problem on a job that has been a pain in the butt for years.

 

Then again, he may be a total waste of time and energy.

 

Just my stream of consciousness on a Saturday morning.

 

Sorry

[Brendan P]

quote:

---

I absolutely HATE people who don't pay attention when you teach them something.

---

I have to agree with you here.

I go through this all the time.

 

Kathy,if he is not smart enough to know to take direction from you,he's not worth having around.

I would love to be able to sit with you and learn the things that you know.

At least I'd be smart enough to listen!

 

BTW Chris...

Santa wants to know what kinda beer you like?

 

[ 12-13-2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: BUCKET HEAD ]

[chris m]

quote:

---

I would love to be able to sit with you and learn the things that you know

---

+1 on that. Ron, Matt, Kathy, GCode, James, Jay, Andrew, Jack, the list goes on and on and on...

 

Brendan, Coors [NOT Light] would be fine, Budweiser or Bud Light also; I'm easy. If your boss is picking up the tab [which he should] then Sam Adams Light would be nice.

 

BTW, your sig is getting worse and worse; is this a downward spiral?

 

C

 

[ 12-13-2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Scott Bond]

We have a new guy ,he's 20.

His task today is to put the drills away.

He can't read the drill chart. (((Ok --I'll show him.)))

I show the guy a case of number drills,letter drills, and fraction drills.

I show him how to read a dial cal., and a mich.

I explain how the drill chart works.

 

 

It is now four days later and the guy confesses that he doesn't

understand fractions. And it is clear that the last three days when I said

"Do you understand what I am saying"

He didn't

even though he said:::::

"Yes" each time I ask him .

 

Kathy ;;;;;;your guy looks like a genius, would you like to trade?

 

Scott teh' I was hoping he would join the Boycott