Mastercam is laughing at me. (Cutter comp)

[barnaby thomas]

...I swear it is.

 

I'm new to mastercam (on a heidenhain control) and I've never found such a devilish system to wrap my head around.

 

At first I thought I was sailing through it; I splashed out on some PDFs from this lovely site (which were a huge help) and even paid insane pennies for "tips for manufacturing" DVDs (also very helpful). All of my simulations looked joytastic and I was itching to start putting all my hard work to use in the shop.

 

Then I encounter this old chestnut "cutter compensation-control"

 

Staggering.

 

Helix bores can now choose to randomly commit suicide. Lead in and out is a mine field. Translated toolpaths can go bonkers and my trust in the system is very shakey.

 

I'm fortunate enough to work with a proper mCAM pro, but I already bug the heck out of him with questions ..

 

I've looked around and found many other have problems but is there an easy answer that im missing? I've only worked in two jobshops in my 10 years of machining so for all I know people are setting things up differently to me; is "control" an option no one bothers with? Do the cam wizards adjust all delta radius tweaks within mastercam and not their tool library?

 

I've got to go now... Need to figure out why my CC has decided to turn "Left" when leaving a hole at rapid speed.

[Jayson Kramer]

Are you using Wear for your cutter comp in the settings for starters? and leaving the control in the machine at 0?

[AMCNitro]

...I swear it is.

 

I'm new to mastercam (on a heidenhain control) and I've never found such a devilish system to wrap my head around.

 

At first I thought I was sailing through it; I splashed out on some PDFs from this lovely site (which were a huge help) and even paid insane pennies for "tips for manufacturing" DVDs (also very helpful). All of my simulations looked joytastic and I was itching to start putting all my hard work to use in the shop.

 

Then I encounter this old chestnut "cutter compensation-control"

 

Staggering.

 

Helix bores can now choose to randomly commit suicide. Lead in and out is a mine field. Translated toolpaths can go bonkers and my trust in the system is very shakey.

 

I'm fortunate enough to work with a proper mCAM pro, but I already bug the heck out of him with questions ..

 

I've looked around and found many other have problems but is there an easy answer that im missing? I've only worked in two jobshops in my 10 years of machining so for all I know people are setting things up differently to me; is "control" an option no one bothers with? Do the cam wizards adjust all delta radius tweaks within mastercam and not their tool library?

 

I've got to go now... Need to figure out why my CC has decided to turn "Left" when leaving a hole at rapid speed.

Thats because you shouldnt use helix bores, Ive had to show a MC salesperson how to it instead.  Instead f Helix bore you should use 2d contour ramp, it gives you complete control over the toolpath.  Ive been using it for years

Ive used control on only one shop before and to me its too prone to operator error, they have to remember to enter the tool size at the control.  Using wear is much more intuitive to me.

[Guest]

Helix bore doesn't work???

Stop the presses....

 

I use that path almost daily

[gcode]

Helix bore doesn't work???

Stop the presses....

 

I use that path almost daily hourly

 

 

had to fix that for you John

[AMCNitro]

Helix bore doesn't work???

Stop the presses....

 

I use that path almost daily

To each their own I guess.  I just have never liked the way it works, 2D Contour Ramp works much better for me.  It feels like I have much more control.

[Guest]

To each their own I guess.  I just have never liked the way it works, 2D Contour Ramp works much better for me.  It feels like I have much more control.

 

I use contour ramp as well in certain situations

 

It just leaves me awestruck when people say it doesn't work......it does exactly what's it's supposed to do.....so that confuses me

 

I can have multiple diameters, multiple stepovers, multiple depths all in one path and finish them too

[Panda_Guy]

We use exclusively wear for radius compensation, so the path is offset by MCam and we just make small adjustments at the machine as needed.

Not familiar with your control and its preferred methods, so nothing to offer there.

On Fanuc compatible controls, you have to be careful not to turn comp on or off with an arc move as it will throw an alarm.

 

A few years ago, there was a self proclaimed "Best Programmer" here.  3 of us were working on a Sunday, which meant he divided his time asking the other two of us how to do his job.  He  asked me what "Comp in Control" meant.  My answer was, "I forget.  I never use it or "Comp in Computer" for that matter, so I tend to get them mixed up."

 

He replied, "Well I just tried it and it scrapped my part."  His part was a huge billet of customer provided material.  Nice place to try something you don't understand, eh?  We never saw him again.

[duckdogers]

I to use helix bore quite often and it does everything I want it to do

[AMCNitro]

The last time I used Helix I was working off  of a program that someone else did, and our Haas had problems with the radius entry and cutter comp(it likes a straight entry), after 5 minutes of looking at it I switched to contour ramp and problem solved.  At that point in time (X7) the problem was that I couldnt find how to change the entry.  Perhaps I need to have another look at Helix bore, except that Ramp works for me, so I dont see the need.

[Jayson Kramer]

I use it to. and I rec-amend to my customers. Like John stated there is a place for both matters on what you are doing.

[gcode]

The last time I used Helix I was working off  of a program that someone else did, and our Haas had problems with the radius entry and cutter comp(it likes a straight entry), after 5 minutes of looking at it I switched to contour ramp and problem solved.  At that point in time (X7) the problem was that I couldnt find how to change the entry.  Perhaps I need to have another look at Helix bore, except that Ramp works for me, so I dont see the need.

just check "Start at Center" on the transitions page

[Rocketmachinist]

I never really found a reason to use helix bore. I use circle mill all the time. What is the reasons you would want helix bore vs circle mill.

[barnaby thomas]

Wow I have to say. Amazing response from people there. I wasn't expecting to get much... I just had a really frustrating time today. Though I managed not to scrap anything.

 

Also I am sorry to everyone who quite rightly pointed out I didn't ask a valid question or explain the problems I'm having... But others filled in the blanks for me in places.

 

Basically, the shop I work for try to standardise the programming so that the non-cam savvy can adjust the tool rads so that chamfers, rounded corners and limits all hit the mark. This is governed by the machines tool tabels.

If we set the comp to "computer" it means there is no offset added in the control so adjusting tool rads makes no difference , everything runs off the CL.

 

I've noticed the other options such as "wear" and wondered if they are a solution to this problem and thought some of you ninjas out there would probably be able to explain it to me, as there must be a simple solution ?

 

As for helix bore functions, its my new favourite way to hit tight limit bores. But with "control" selected, if you use the "rough/finish" functions and don't keep the tool down you can find that it applies RL comp on the rapid back up to retract plane. Which was infuriating.

 

No worries if there's no easy answer. Cheers for any feedback

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

The easy answer is to always set your compensation type to "wear". When using "wear", your d-comp value in the control should be zero, and you adjust it + or - to get your measurements right on spec.

 

I would suggest avoiding the use of "control" compensation at all costs.

[jlw™]

I use helix bore and contour-ramp, both quite often.  I use helix bore pretty much exclusively for round/point geo and ramp in other cases.

 

I recommend playing with the lead in/out one box at a time to figure it out.  I have used Edgecam, VisualMill, Esprit and Mastercam professionally.  IMHO Mastercam is more intuitive than the others once you figure it out.  I did prefer Edgecam until I got the hang of Mastercam.

 

Starting with helix bore, set your path to start on center, set sweep from 45 to 90 depending on how you like it.  I set my defaults here... it's what i prefer and always use.  Play with it to find what you like and set your defaults, then change on the off chance you need too:

 

 

And for contour lead in/out... play with it.  Start with perpindicular and change one box at a time and then you'll know what all is going on.

 

HTH

[jlw™]

PS, I use computer or control exclusively.  It depends on what every one in your shop is accustomed to.  CC needs the same motion regardless and we are a very heavy Mazatrol shop so that's what we use.  The shop I'm in now prefers control.

 

I could go either way and couldn't care less but it comes down to opinion/preference and that is different every where you go.

[barnaby thomas]

The easy answer is to always set your compensation type to "wear". When using "wear", your d-comp value in the control should be zero, and you adjust it + or - to get your measurements right on spec.

 

I would suggest avoiding the use of "control" compensation at all costs.

Oh that's great! Cheers!!!

[Mick]

I personally have never had a need to use helix bore. I use contour ramp, with a handy little formula to have the cutter arc off to the centre of the bore every time. (If I am comping in computer. Wear comp, I add a lead in line/leadout line)

 

Lead out radius = (Diameter of bore - Diameter of cutter)/4

 

Lead out angle = 180 degrees.

 

Works a treat every time.

 

I'm not saying Helix Bore doesn't work. Just that I've never had a need to use it.

[jeff]

+1 for wear

And I've never used Helix Bore either, is there an advantage over circle mill or contour ramp that I'm not seeing? Other than maybe less clicks?

[The Cathedral]

Computer  -  all cutter comp is calculated and applied inside Mastercam. Changes to tool diameter must be made in Mastercam, and then re-posted.

 

Control  -  NO cutter comp is calculated in Mastercam. G41/42/40 is output; operator is responsible for setting up machine to reflect actual tool diameter. 

 

Wear  -  Cutter comp is calculated and applied inside Mastercam using the defined tool diameter. G41/42/40 is output; operator only has to adjust the tool value in the machine control to compensate for tool wear.

 

Off  - NO cutter comp is applied in Mastercam; NO G41/42/40 is output. Tool cuts on centerline only.

 

 

I use Helix bore exclusively; it has better options for roughing and finishing inside the toolpath; also, it's much easier to pick out of the toolpath manager.

[gcode]

a caveat on Control Comp

the backplot results you see in Mastercam may or may not reflect what you get on the machine

Mastecam can only estimate how the machine will respond and has no idea what value the operator

will set in the offset tables

as a rule of thumb you should make sure you have a straight leadin /leadout move of at least 55%

of the intended tool diameter

[Rstewart]

Also, on Helix bore toolpath make sure you have "start at center" and "Perpendicular entry" checked if using Wear or Control.  You must have a straight line move before you arc into the cut or will most likely get a CC alarm.

[Henk]

I'm new to mastercam (on a heidenhain control)

 

 

We are an Heidenhain shop. when using wear all D-offsets have to be "0".

That means the operators can not use the heidenhain cycles for pocketing  (251-254 and  212-215) , threadmilling (262-267) and helixbore (208) .

Also the graphic backplot will not work.

 

For THAT we never use wear.

You have to make the decision what route you want to go for the whole shop, using both wil be an nightmare !!

 

as a rule of thumb you should make sure you have a straight leadin /leadout move of at least 55%

of the intended tool diameter

 

 

just my 2c.

BTW it's not my intention to start an new Wear-Control discussion, (do an search, then you can spend hours and hours reading) 

[SpacePilotPro]

• I'm on board with the contour ramp option. I don't like the lack of a spring pass option in helix bore, and it kind of seems easier with the contour.