Viewsheets. Why you no click it?

[SlaveCam]

Viewsheets are fantastic, even in "simple" 3-axis work. At most some of the workpieces I've machined have required about ten different positions in the machine in separate jigs. A properly named viewsheet per setup is a lot faster and less error prone than choosing the levels, planes etc. separately imo.

[F10Brandon]

I don't use them often but when I do, I use them heavily. But its one of those things I've always been used to using levels. I didn't even know level sets were a thing.... 

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I don't use viewsheets or level sets, just well organised levels and planes.  I also have a hotkey for Gview = Cplane which I use all the time.  The program I'm working on presently has about 150 ops and 26 planes.

[crazy^millman]

20 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek™ - Conventus said:

I don't use viewsheets or level sets, just well organised levels and planes.  I also have a hotkey for Gview = Cplane which I use all the time.  The program I'm working on presently has about 150 ops and 26 planes.

Ding Ding Ding we have a like minded person.

Gview = Cplane has lived on my RMB for years.

[jlw™]

I have it set to ctrl+v.  It's about wore out on my keyboard.

[Guest]

Do you guys really program in a 2D view?

I'm in a 3D regardless of what I am programming..I just see it better

 

[jlw™]

Mostly I do from an iso-ish view.  I do like to be able to quickly flip to see from 2d tho.

[crazy^millman]

3 hours ago, JParis said:

Do you guys really program in a 2D view?

I'm in a 3D regardless of what I am programming..I just see it better

 

Program maybe, everything else oh yes. When you do this you ensure the plane you expect your Multi-Axis work to be using is that plane. The small showing of what plane you are using at the bottom of the screen or having to have the planes manager broken out of the operations manager cluttering up the screen is too much to ask. I am running a laptop and a tower with a KVM switch and 2 screens is all I like to run. I open up the laptop screen sometimes, but since it is only a 17" screen and I have 2 27" screens gets real hard to focus in on it.

Great process for 4 Axis HMC or VMC work and for Mill/Turn a huge help having this on your right click. I also have all the standard views on my RMB. Do you program in those views? Do you always program in ISO even for back or right planes when programming a HMC? For me right click right view and done. No different on a part with tons of planes. I have that plane active and want to look at the part from that plane right click Gview = Cplane and done. Why is this different than going to a standard view and programming from one of them?

[Newbeeee™]

20 hours ago, C^Millman said:

Ding Ding Ding we have a like minded person.

Be afraid Jay-Dub.

Be VERY afraid...

[Guest]

18 hours ago, C^Millman said:

Do you always program in ISO even for back or right planes when programming a HMC?

Yup......Shift + F9 indicators always let me know where I am....maybe not the ISO view but always in a 3D view, almost never flat

[crazy^millman]

5 hours ago, JParis said:

Yup......Shift + F9 indicators always let me know where I am....maybe not the ISO view but always in a 3D view, almost never flat

We agree and are saying kind of the same thing  just from different prospectives.  

Part of my point I use the Gview = Cplane to get where I want to see what I am cutting, then I am using my 3D mouse to move and go from that as my base reference. You can't program the backside and side of a tomb from ISO. From a 3D view you can, but if you had Back as your Cview and right clicked Gview = Cplane it would be no different than hitting back view on the right click, toolbar or anywhere where it tells the screen to now look at the model from the back view to see the back of the tombstone. Now when programming for a 5 Axis where I have a part that is 100" in diameter and I have 56 planes and I need to reference my brain on the Section AY-AY that I am machining 40 different features on it is right orientation  then I can have my active plane Section AY-AY and then be in ISO and then right click Gveiw = Cview and now bam I am right there looking at the Section AY-AY. Now I can then feel comfortable that set of features out of 30k features on the part is what I am working on and that plane will give me the clearance I need when I am coming 3+2 with 14" gauge length tools and not hit anything. A tool is just that and when we allow our thought process to use as many tools in the toolbox as possible we have more freedom to get the job done as best as possible. To limit it to well you must only be programming in 2D is not giving enough credit to the process needed to get the job done.

I have a part right now that is starting out a over 8k lbs and coming down to 550lbs when it is done. Just on 1st operation roughing I have well over 21 stock models, and about 18 planes and the file is about 1gb. I have to worry about many different things on this part and the quick Gview = Cview sanity check for me that yes that is the section I am 3+2 machining is like I expect it to be helps me in my simple brain feel comfortable about clearance moves, approach and retract moves depths and other things all jive.  Different part I am doing is going from 2500lbs down to 110lbs. That has currently has 26 planes same thing with stupid crazy length stick outs for tools. I let my Gveiw = Cview put me in the thought of the area I am working then from there I 3D mouse to the underside of the pocket or move to the right or left side of the pocket and ready to go. I started in that 2D Gview and may grab a lot the surfaces I am going to be machining from that 2D view for that area of the part. Why not? I know that is the section I am 3+2 machining and by using that view I am limiting my possibility of error greatly making sure everything I should be grabbing in that view is being grabbed. Then I can move my part with my 3D mouse and get the other areas that are now connected to that base start of features.

[Tangent Rant on]

I really don't like the Triple click of solids when face is your process as selection in 2018. I don't like the need to turn on and off levels when you have surfaces and solids on the screen for the new HST toolpaths selection process. I don't like the selection features for solids was not carried over to surfaces. I don't like that show was removed from the HST toolpaths in 2018.

[Tangent Rant off]

For containment boundaries this Gview = Cview is huge when you are using Opti-Rough in 3+2 with tons of sectional stock models. I need that boundary to be in the Cview so I keep the head of the machine or tool  from slamming into other areas. I hit the Gview = Cview button make my boundaries and done. The new 2D automgacially projecting the entitles to your Z on the 2D does take a little getting use to since that behavior changed in 2018 form 20 years of previous methodology, but I am seeing where it is a time saver.

JLW and others make a good reason to use viewsheets. I have used them. but they are cluttered and clunky from my prospective when they get past the width of the screen. I am not making widgets I am working on and making very involved very complex parts. My process are used and learned from by our customers and the group I have the honor to work with. It is a tool for people that help them, but they need to function better. If they were like the planes or levels where they were not part of the bottom of the screen and Mastercam organized them in something like a levels manager or the planes manager then we have a useful tool, but as they are now for what I do they are more of an annoyance than a help. I could not use MT without them. I like them for simple 3 Axis work with 2 or 3 operations. I like them for simple 4 Axis HMC or VMC work, but beyond that why add a another thing to a file that is going to grow it's size and then give something else to processes in the data base?

None of this is meant to be personal in my response or directed at any one person, but if I like it or not people read what is posted here. I want people to use the software in a certain way because I think it helps them do their job better and faster. Not that my way is the best way as I have picked up from many different people over the years that has shaped my thinking. With having the ability to work with all the different companies I have worked with and been into has helped shape my thinking. With all the different people I have taught over the years this one thing Gview = Cview along with all your standard views on the RMB for anyone doing Multi axis and 5 Axis work has been a huge time saver for them. If all those people over all these years agree it is a good tool to use then I am hopefully giving anyone who reads this response a good enough reason to explore using it.

Sorry for the length of this response. Have a good day to anyone who reads this.

[3R!< W3NG3R]

What's the difference between hitting the 'TOP' button on my 3D mouse and gview=cview?

If I select top, it shows me the cplane of the current WCS. I use this all the time for the same reason that Ron went on about. But I have yet to use Gview = Cplane

[Jayson Kramer]

Going on the main question, I have really started using Viewsheets as of X7 and more and more over time. I really fine them along with levels and planes to help lay things out and these days easy and fast. Even more sense they added the option when making a new WCS.

I know that each have there way they like to do things that help work thru there files. 
like the F9 cross hairs I hate them find for years to get in the way now Alf9 with the gnomons makes sense and no clutter.

Just a little of what I like. have a great day.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

5 hours ago, 3R!< W3NG3R said:

What's the difference between hitting the 'TOP' button on my 3D mouse and gview=cview?

If I select top, it shows me the cplane of the current WCS. I use this all the time for the same reason that Ron went on about. But I have yet to use Gview = Cplane

When you're doing 5 ax or 3+2, WCS stays at Top, while Cplane and Tplane move around.  So if I hit the "top" button on my Space Pilot it always shows the "Top" view, not the plane I'm programming from.

 

I set mine to <alt>+"`" (the single open quote and tilda button left of the "1") 'cause I figure it would never be used for anything else.  I also set <alt>+"t" to trim, which is probably the shortcut I use most.

[crazy^millman]

Okay today I was reminded why I don't like view sheets. I have a couple operations view sheets. The last time I was working with the file and saved it not what comes up. One of the view sheets I was not using comes up. Now I have to put everything back to the levels and such as to what it was when it was last saved. Without view sheets I never see this, but with view sheets it will do this where the way the file was last saved it forgotten and what ever view sheet it decides to show you is what you are getting. Now throw 50 planes and 250 operations along with well over 200 levels in that equation and it is just clutter.

This file was just shared with someone to help with making a new program for roughing to smaller material. Guess what came up on their screen? A view sheet not the way the file was saved. How do I know this because we did a gotomeeting and I saw him open it up.

[crazy^millman]

On 7/15/2017 at 1:16 PM, C^Millman said:

Okay today I was reminded why I don't like view sheets. I have a couple operations view sheets. The last time I was working with the file and saved it not what comes up. One of the view sheets I was not using comes up. Now I have to put everything back to the levels and such as to what it was when it was last saved. Without view sheets I never see this, but with view sheets it will do this where the way the file was last saved it forgotten and what ever view sheet it decides to show you is what you are getting. Now throw 50 planes and 250 operations along with well over 200 levels in that equation and it is just clutter.

This file was just shared with someone to help with making a new program for roughing to smaller material. Guess what came up on their screen? A view sheet not the way the file was saved. How do I know this because we did a gotomeeting and I saw him open it up.

Now I do it and it went back to the last time the file was saved.

[crazy^millman]

Ran into another reason I have issue with view sheets. There is no pause button or place holder for the view sheet, You start down a path to make a new viewsheet you must 1st create it then make it like you want. If you don't do that and use the default to get everything like you want now that main viewsheet is hosed. I just made about 10 WCS before I decided on the one I want to use. Had I been using the create ViewSheet process then I would have 8 I need to now delete.

My next issue is showing the Active WCS Gnomon in the planes manager. Make a couple up and make the WCS active display on your screen through the Planes manager. Now change the view sheet and your active WCS will update in the planes manager, but your Gnomon on the screen will not update. Here is a quick video of what I am seeing.

Video of what I see.

[crazy^millman]

On 7/17/2017 at 0:51 PM, C^Millman said:

Now I do it and it went back to the last time the file was saved.

Today I went back and didn't open the file the way it was saved.

[SavannahG]

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:28 AM, nickbe10 said:

I originally programmed in APT, organizing your geometry file in some sort of usable and logical order was essential. So with 999,999 levels it was a natural and easy transfer for me. Each OP starts on a number separated by 100 or 1000 depending on the size of the file. I always put a copy of the origin on the first level, say 100. Op2 would be 200. All Op1 Toolpath geometry 120 - 130, Op2 220 - 230.....you get the idea. 0 -  100 for models and setup geometry etc...things that all the ops might refer to. Then good descriptions on the level. Use Level sets sometimes, rarely use viewsheets.

I also started with APT back in 1987. I've been programming in MasterCam since 1990 and I use exactly the same method nickbe10 describes here word for word. I tried using level sets, but I just found it to be more clutter. In the end it's really about whatever works for you. One mans organization is another mans clutter. For me Level Sets and View Sheets are just additional maintenance. That's just how my brain works.

I like what Benk said...

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:05 AM, BenK said:

 But with that said, we all use it differently and that is whats great about it, options.

 

[nickbe10]

22 minutes ago, SavannahG said:

I also started with APT back in 1987

Welcome to the forum, fellow former APT programmer!

Not many of us around now.....I worked in a shop around 2008 and we had 3 programmers that knew APT, vey unusual.....

[Zoober]

While I like the views associated with viewsheets, there is no way I could organize them like Levelsets.

Unless someone could show me how I could organize viewsheets like my levels, I can't see going to them any time soon.

 

 

[Mick George]

I see a lot of customers using view-sheets for their setup sheets, I have also written a few NET-Hooks for customers that generate additional setup sheet data utilizing  view-sheets and other data sources.

[RaiderX]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:28 AM, nickbe10 said:

Welcome to the forum, fellow former APT programmer!

Not many of us around now.....I worked in a shop around 2008 and we had 3 programmers that knew APT, vey unusual.....

Yep former APT programmer here too.   it has brought some good organization skills but some old school not so good habits to my approach programming. I keep trying to evolve, a work in progress.

 

Doug

[SlaveCam]

Right now I'm getting very frustrated with active viewsheet not getting saved into a 2018 save file. It always goes back to main view on reload. This needs to be fixed!

[Newbeeee™]

2 hours ago, Mick George said:

I see a lot of customers using view-sheets for their setup sheets, I have also written a few NET-Hooks for customers that generate additional setup sheet data utilizing  view-sheets and other data sources.

This subject (Setup Sheets) is right up there as one of the most important things in mcam. But to me, it hasn't been given the resource it should have. IMO it should be easier to get good info out quickly, than what is available out of the box.