Why is Mazak better than Haas?

[1320feet]

Why is Mazak better than Haas?

 

I'm looking at a new Mazak VNC 510 and a Haas VF4-SS.

I would like to justify the extra 40% price tag of the mazak.

I would especially like to here from someone who has run both.

 

Thanks

[peon]

This question WILL start a flame war. I don't have experience with Mazak, but plenty with Haas. STAY AWAY FROM THE HAAS! We have had WAY too much down time with three newer(less than two years old) Haas machines (EC-1600, VM3 and VM2). We sold the VM2 and the EC-1600. The VM3 will be on the chopping block next.

[Kevangel]

Think I saw some nice Mazaks up for auction soon in Denver Colorado and some mori-sekis also with pallets etc.. Machinetools.com and click on auctions..its a bankruptcy and building is full of good stuff.

[Hardmill]

Why is a BMW better than a hyundai ??

Same difference

 

 

PEACE

[Lars Christensen]

bottom line..........you get what you pay for.

 

Some people have had good and bad experience with both.

[ReDEyZZ]

we have 10 mazaks and 2 mori's , I have run haas before, mazaks are much more rigid and better quality.

 

If you are doing tight tolerance work in harder steels don't buy a haas, If you are doing mostly aluminium It should be o.k.

 

I would go with a Mori over mazak.

 

my .01c

[Thee Dragracer1951]

I'll let you talk to my wife. She pays the bills. She will no doubt give you her opinion of Haas machines. I WILL admit that the mills are far better thanthe turning centers. But that ain't sayin much.

[htm01]

the ss will not hold position over 40 IPM on 3D surfaces

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

You are being unfair. You are comparing apples to oranges. They are so different on so many different levels it's hard to know where to start. BUt I'll jaust say you're comparing a high end Japanese machine against a commodity machine and leave it at that.

[ATG]

Here we go again

[?Mark]

quote:

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auction soon in Denver Colorado and some mori-sekis also with pallets etc.. Machinetools.com and click on auctions

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Kevin, I can't find the link for this...

[Kevangel]

quote:

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http://www.biditup.com/

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Mark, this will take you to auctioneers page also. Its Precision Automated products (or similar name)in Littleton, Colorado...was wrong about mazaks, they have a bunch of Makinos, Mori-sekis, matsuras...serious $$$$$$$$$money in that place. Auction is on the 20th. PDF file to download at right side. Mark, do you know these folks??

[?Mark]

Kevin,

No I don't know them. Looks like some good quality equipment though.

Thanks for the link.

[billystein]

the one thing that I think is better on haas than mazak is the resale on a 15 year old machine. for some reason you can buy an old mazak still running in ok shape for less than a wornout old haas. I think because the haas is cheaper and easier to rebuild.

[mold100]

James after running what I consider IMO the top 4 machines all start with M and are all japanese (Mori,Mazak,Makino, and Matsurra)vs years of Haas,Fadals,Miltronics, and the bottom of the pit cinncinatti sabres and lancers, they ONLY thing that the first group of machines have with the second group is the can all remove material, other than that they are not even in the same league.

 

On note is higher end machines tend to be more high mait. more sensitive, and oh yeah not as user friendly. However the function and abilities are unbelievably differant.

 

I would pit a 40 taper of the jap machines against a 50 taper for any of the american machines listed for a 20 to 30% greater metal removal rate.

[YoDoug®]

I think that a machine purchase needs to be based on the intended work load. If you do low tolerance/ low dollar work you need one type of machine. If you do mold work you need another. If you do delicate medical type work you need another. If you do exotic metal aerospace type work you may need yet another type of machine.

 

It is sort of a paradigm shift in thought from what we have done in the past, but its is now our practice here. We group work pieces by type, material, tolerances, etc to "load a prospective machine". Then we find the machine that best suites that "work load".

[Hardmill]

quote:

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I consider IMO the top 4 machines all start with M and are all japanese

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Numbered 2-5 behind the king which starts w/ a "Y"

YASDA. Hands down the best of the best.

 

 

Hi Corey :waving:

 

 

 

 

PEACE

[Guest]

"Why is a BMW better than a hyundai "

hey i resemble that remark.

i own a haas and a hyundai. the hyundai is a

better piece of engineering, lol.

in all seriousness, haas-mazak = two very different leagues.

they both have their place, whats your aplication and goals?

[Rob B]

I ran Mazaks for 12 yrs before changing jobs. All I can say is -40% on everything you try to cut on a Haas. SFM, Depth of cut, everything period!!!! Smaller depths of cut, slower feeds and speeds = less parts out the door. Less parts out the door = less money in the door. The last new Mazak we bought was 510 with a 4th axis. What I would give to have it tomorrow when I clock in. Just my 2¢ worth.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...We group work pieces by type, material, tolerances, etc to "load a prospective machine". Then we find the machine that best suites that "work load".

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Which is EXACTLY how our comapny sells machines. We sell according to the 80-20 rule. Is the machine a good fit for 80% of your parts? If so it's a good fit. If not, we'll look for something else.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

i agree with the above statements it all depends on the work your doing ...but we have a shop full of haas machines we are happy with them there has been very few problums and almost every thing we fixed ourselfs with parts the very next day...mazaks are a higher end machine BUT dont listen too much to the HATERS about haas theres a reson there BOOMING its because they do build a great machine at a good price we cut 304 /316 ss all day and aluminum and plastics too we hold .0005 and with high speed look ahead they remoove pleanty of material very fast ...Methods, Machinest,Machine thats what puts parts out the door seen plenty of high end machines not properly programed setup or run no matter what machine you have its not just the machine its the whole package

[Hacsta]

can i get ah amen

[somename75]

I have used many mazaks and haas' over the years, and the only place where i think there might be a good case for a haas is in the larger machines, VF6 and up. They are still junk, but unbelievable value when you try to compare them against similiar sized new machines. Just my .02

[Randy Morton @ Clem Industrial]

We have many Mazak's here, and a haas MDC. I have also run a Haas VF6 and VF5 in the past. Personally I dont have an issue with the haas machines. Yes they seem to have a few more quirks then some of the higher price tagged machines, but I would ponder if that is expected.

 

On the VF5 I ran for near a year we were doing decently toleranced cast iron pump cases and end plates. Day in, day out for 9 months, and barely had an issue (other then nasty coolant! haha). We also did 9" long x 6" diam. helical gears on the VF5's rotary table. That ran quite well, and we had that table moving and taking some monster depths of cut.

 

They are not bad machines, imo. Depends on the budget, application and wheather or not you've been force fed from the people that tell you they are junk, because they are not.

 

On a side note, our Cat40 Haas MDC 500 has been alive for 2 years now with rarely and issue and all it does all day long is drill holes up to 1.375" with seco drill at 850sfm & .008" feed.... not bad for a low end Cat40 machine....

 

JM2C

[Hacsta]

randy do you have the high speed look ahead with the mdc