maintenance agreement coming to Mastercam

[Rick Damiani]

First you said:

quote:

---

if they are creating any sofware, they should tested 1000%, thru every option possible, they are the ones creating them aren't they?

thaty know better then anybody else how it should work.[/quote

 

Then you said:

 

James, i dont mind waiting 1 month, but 3 months, come on, for 3 months, setting up machines so carefully because i have an error every time i post something, when enough is enough?

---

I'm kinda confused. You first complained about how CNC software ought to be able to test each and every possible code path through the software before they release it 1000% (never mind that such a task is not even theoreticly possible), then you complain that it took three months for them to release a fix for a problem that, from the sound of it, was difficult to pin down.

 

I understand how frustrating it can be to deal with a known bug that affects something you do a lot. That pales in comparison to dealing with the first revision of a fix to that bug, hot off the programmer's keyboard.

 

In generating NC code, we are used to programs where the 'fix' is usually limited to changing a couple of blocks of the code. The 'fix' for software problems, especially ones that are tough to pin down, can involve reviewing and fixing tens of thousands of lines of code in hundreds of different modules written by dozens of different programmers. Some of these modules may be depending on the 'incorrect' results generated by other modules for them to fuction correctly. Fix the original bug, and you break those other modules, introducing new bugs. All this stuff has to be tested, yet the time you can afford to spend testing is limited becasue the real problems experenced by real people won't go away until you actually get that patch out the door.

 

The same thing is true, on a much larger scale, with version upgrades. CNC software could have stuck with V6, for example, and simply devoted all thier time to tracking down and eradicating every single bug in the bug database. Yet there are real people, with real problems, who need tools like associative toolpaths, the WCS, or surface stiching, or thin wall pockets, or any of a dozen other things that V7, 8, and 9 added on. Those problems need addressing, too. Customers won't wait around, hat in hand, for you to track down every single thing that might be wrong before you get around to adding new fuctionality they need to stay competitive.

 

Speaking of competition: I see a lot of folks in this thread complaining that CNC Software's release schedule is being driven by accountants. If you think that is the case, tell me how long you would have continued to use MasterCAM if development of new features stopped with V6? More to the point: would you still be using it now? Other vendors of programming software won't wait until you get every single bug killed. They will go ahead and release new fuctionality, accept that there might be a few bugs that can be killed as they pop up, and take all your customers away.

 

As for the discussion on software maintenance: Larger companies *are* driving the software industry, as a whole, towards maintenance programs. They want to be able to budget a specific amount, on an annual basis, for software expendatures. Random release schedules hurt the bottom line because if you don't know, as closely as possible, how much money you need to operate over the next year, you have to keep cash on-hand. That cash kept on-hand is cash that is not going towards things that build the business and/or generate profits.

 

Will maintenance 'hurt' the smaller shops that struggle to fund the purchase of a couple seats of MasterCAM? I supose it could, if it were handled by Microsoft. It's not being handled by Microsoft, though. It's being handled by CNC Software, a company that has a pretty good history of putting customer concerns - even single-seat customer concerns - very high on the list of things to worry about. If and when they start acting like Microsoft, then we can bitch and moan about them and how they used to care about the little guy. Until then, remember that maintenance is *optional*, that you can still buy MasterCAM they way you always have if you wish, and trust them to fix it if it dosn't work out as well as we would like.

[gcode]

Rick,

My statement that V9's release was driven by accountants was not meant as a complaint.

Its just an opinion based on my personal observations. If true, hindsite proves it was a bad decision. There as been one upgrade and 3 service packs since V9's initial release.

I don't think Mastercam's demise is near and have no knoweldge of a buyout. The thought of either

is upsetting. I have a lot of time and money invested in Mastercam.

In the long run a maintenance agreement will be a good thing. It will give Mastercam a more reliable

revenue stream which will make it easier to develop V10 and beyond.

It will probably make it more expensive to keep my copy of MC up to date. It may force me to skip every other upgrade. I'd really hate that, but that's life !

[Lathe-Mill]

Rick damiani

quote:

---

I'm kinda confused. You first complained about how CNC software ought to be able to test each and every possible code path through the software before they release it 1000% (never mind that such a task is not even theoreticly possible), then you complain that it took three months for them to release a fix for a problem that, from the sound of it, was difficult to pin down.

---

they told me the bug was fixed within a week, they responsed was, it's fixed, was not a big deal, but my question was to them, may i have it?...it's already fixed right? yes it is, but we wont release it until the next service pack.

when it's that going to be?...in a few months.

now that pissed me off.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

WOW its been a long weekend i guess ...after reviewing my dvd of oliver stones JFK i think i did see mark and brian summers on that grassy knowl relax

[Fig sign]

Mostly I agree with Rick ,but

quote:

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Until then, remember that maintenance is *optional*, that you can still buy MasterCAM they way you always have if you wish, and trust them to fix it if it dosn't work out as well as we would like.

---

This will soon end ,anyway they will close with a code a patch so that if you are not paying maintainence you will not get the next patch !

(the latest and greatest )

 

Iskander teh don`t make a fool of me !

[Oppiz]

I was contacted by my dealer about a MC promotion. I don't remember the exact dollar figures but it went like this: If I purchase before the end of the year, the service agree ($1100) I will get version 10 plus all its upgrades. If I wait it will cost around $1200 for V10 then $1100 for the service agreement.

[Andris Skulte]

It comes down to making more money from/for Mastercam. Companies exist for the reason of making money for their owners, and as a bonus, keep lots of good people employed and making adecent living. They release this maintenance agreement in the hopes of getting more money from existing users, so yes, it will cost you (avg customer) more. Whether this new money means they can hire more programmers (rather than using it for keeping the existing status quo) and release more functionality faster is something none of us can tell.

 

I don't mind paying for new functionality, options, and bonuses that will benefit me, in the ways I use mastercam. It's much harder to justify paying for bug fixes and patches (which I believe should be considered part of the purchase price of the software). As long as they are still included in the purchase price of the program, and the new functionality is part of the "optional" program, I think that is fair. Just another small shop user's opinion...

[biss03]

everyone on here is lucky. if it weren't for this board relaying all the valuable information, i would have no idea this maintenance thing was coming and would have had no time to soften up the bosses before requesting it. must be nice to have resellers who care about their customers. basically since 9/11, our company has had nothing but hard times. so we haven't upgraded since V8.1.1. the only time i heard from my sales guy was when V9 came out to see if we were going to get it. when i explained our financial situation to him, that was the end of it. maybe he's too busy to deal with a small customer like me, but i don't even get this newsletter everyone on here is talking about.

so needless to say, the maintence thing will affect me negatively in a big way.

[Mark H]

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

quote:

---

Quote from Peter Eigler

OK EVERYONE....LET'S CUT THE DOOM AND GLOOM!!!

 

The upgrade for a new version from the previous version costs 15% if you choose to buy it.

 

If you choose to go on maintenance, you get updates for free. If you don't you can still purchase the updates when you wish.

 

Let's stop with the conspiracy theories, bashing accountants, engineers, MBA holders. It is getting ridiculous. People are already talking about the sale of CNC Software, buying other CAM packages, the end of the American Empire, and the inevitable extinction of our civilization due to giant meteorites, all because of this new maintenance program. I am surprised no one has suggested that Mark Summers was on the grassy knoll on that sunny day in Dallas in 1963....Everyone RELAX ALREADY..

 

THIS IS AN OPTIONAL MAINTENANCE PROGRAM. The only thing that doesn't smell good about it is the bug fix/patch issue. I firmly believe that if my customer purchases V9 and a bug is found and fixed, he should have the patch at no charge, whether or not on maintenance. I would concentrate on that aspect and ignore the rest, since it IS OPTIONAL!!!!

---

Thanks Peter for that explanation.

[Charles Davis]

T@T@LO,

 

You seem way too hung up on this one bug. CNC has a rigorous method for handling software problems. They are fixed based on an assigned priority based on severity, how many people are affected, etc. I've seen this system work over several years, and it's very effective.

 

The perspective you need is that even though this seems like the most important thing in the world to you, it doesn't affect very many people, so other issues were fixed first.

 

Part of being a professional is to keep some perspective on your situation, report the issue as accurately as you can, and then use your talents to work around it until it can be fixed.

 

Remember, it's Mastercam, not T@T@L0cam.

[Lathe-Mill]

I know not everyone has the same problem, but if any problem was thst simple, why not get it out of the way and concentrate on the complex ones?.. why wait until everyone calls, then finish all at once?.

i'm not just complaining on that.

the original complain was, why should pay for fixes and patches?

also, the one that pays for the agreement will have better support then the one who does not.

i did quoted what the news letter said.

once again...." IT CAN SAVE YOU TIME AND MONEY ON THE LONG TERM, AND GIVE YOU ACCESS TO THE LATEST AND GREATEST NOW AND THE NEW FEATURES SOONER THAN ANYONE ELSE."

[MACHINEMASTERG]

lock it down already ...enough is enough!!!!!

[ssibiski]

quote:

---

CNC Software is working towards announcing an optional annual maintenance program

---

I think we all need to remember that this is just optional. Just like mill lvl 3 you don't have to buy it its your choice. Untill it becomes manditory I'm not going to worry about it. To date Mastercam has treated me very well and I have no complaints. I highly doubt they would do anything to hurt the customer relationships they have built. It seems they are just tring to help those customers who would like to use a system like this.

 

Steve

[heeler]

I just hope that Mastercam can continue to improve, I think that we should remember that it takes money to change and improve. The support that I have receive from my reseller, Mastercam, and the Professionals on this forum is unmatched by any other piece of equipment/software that I have ever used. There will be a real challange for CNC software to have money come in to continually improve and update their software when the selling of new seats have slowed. I don't know that I have the answer, just want to keep the software improving to make my job easier.

 

Hopefully they can find a way that will work for everyone and keep improving the best.

 

JM2C

 

Glenn

 

P.S. I don't belive that you can ever have bug-proof software, All of us use Mastercam differently. This makes it impossible to tell exactly what someone's need are/and how the will use the software.

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

I know not everyone has the same problem, but if any problem was thst simple, why not get it out of the way and concentrate on the complex ones?.. why wait until everyone calls, then finish all at once?.

i'm not just complaining on that.

the original complain was, why should pay for fixes and patches?

also, the one that pays for the agreement will have better support then the one who does not.

i did quoted what the news letter said.

once again...." IT CAN SAVE YOU TIME AND MONEY ON THE LONG TERM, AND GIVE YOU ACCESS TO THE LATEST AND GREATEST NOW AND THE NEW FEATURES SOONER THAN ANYONE ELSE."

 

---

Where does it say better support?

It states access to: "SOONER" says nothing of

better. Get off the bash wagon pal.

Your a paying customer, not the only paying

customer.

 

PEACE

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

I just hope that Mastercam can continue to improve, I think that we should remember that it takes money to change and improve. The support that I have receive from my reseller, Mastercam, and the Professionals on this forum is unmatched by any other piece of equipment/software that I have ever used.

---

Nice point. VERY nice point.

 

[ 09-22-2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Thad]

quote:

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maybe he's too busy to deal with a small customer like me, but i don't even get this newsletter everyone on here is talking about.

---

biss,

 

IIRC, it was something that you opted for when joining the board. It's an e-newsleter, not something that gets sent to your house/work.

 

Thad

[Polite Luther]

Some companies find it necessary to budget for software on an annual basis. I know the outfit I work for does. If they can budget for it, they can get it. Having to pay for releases on the fly every 1.5 or 2 or 2.5 years raises red flags with accounting and department budgets and is often met with a NO when requested by us guyz on the floor.

[chris m]

Could this be the return of Morning Wood?

 

Hmmm...

[Mark H]

Welcome back Luther

[robk]

Luther,

 

That was one of the most polite comments to enter thru my ears today...

Welcome back?!?!

 

Rob

 

[ 09-22-2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: robk ]

[Harryman]

quote:

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Could this be the return of Morning Wood?

---

Or...ImaBodyPart, or...ItsaNaturalFunction

 

IllBeGoodNow?

 

[crazy^millman]

 

Crazy Millman

[biss03]

Thad.... thanks for the insight.

[Polite Luther]

I'll behave, be polite and act Rated G (think Disney).

 

It's good to be home.