Building the dream shop, need some ideas...

[civiceg]

Looks awesome, keep the updates coming!!

[Mick]

Looks great.

 

Need some help? I'll come on over

[metalmansteve]

Looks awesome! I cant believe you fit two horizontals, a vertical and 4 dudes in 1200 sq ft.

[Newbeeee™]

Looks awesome! I cant believe you fit two horizontals, a vertical and 4 dudes in 1200 sq ft.

Pfffftt.

We have 11 cncs in 1600...

[Fred @ Slate Industries]

Bob I can see over 50 Building code violations in your first picture...

Oh wait your not building in Dupage Co. ILL

Never mind , Looks Good !

[brandon b]

Pfffftt.

We have 11 cncs in 1600...

And i thought we are getting cramped.

Have 9 verticals and 1 lathe in 11,000 sq ft lol

[SlaveCam]

From a nerd...

 

High-end computers for running high-end CAM systems. There is just no reason to save money on computing power when it comes to CAM programming. Big LCD displays (preferably two). One computer per CNC machine (data transfer, editing and internet surfing).

Intranet and a central server where all programs and CAD draftings are stored. An office A3 network scanner/printer to turn CAD papers digital. Also a network backup drive. Access to internet through a hardware firewall. Homepage and preferably extranet for customers. ERP software. A laptop to borrow for those employees who want to program outside the normal working time. A high resolution camera to take shots of all those complicated jigs. Also wouldn't mind a pair of active speakers for music listening (not those crappy plastic pc speakers)

 

Also every new employee must keeps programs, drawings and other documents in the proper folders and know how to comment programs, tools etc. so that others can run them as easily as possible. Part of a quality system.

[crazy^millman]

From a nerd...

 

High-end computers for running high-end CAM systems. There is just no reason to save money on computing power when it comes to CAM programming. Big LCD displays (preferably two). One computer per CNC machine (data transfer, editing and internet surfing).

Intranet and a central server where all programs and CAD draftings are stored. An office A3 network scanner/printer to turn CAD papers digital. Also a network backup drive. Access to internet through a hardware firewall. Homepage and preferably extranet for customers. ERP software. A laptop to borrow for those employees who want to program outside the normal working time. A high resolution camera to take shots of all those complicated jigs. Also wouldn't mind a pair of active speakers for music listening (not those crappy plastic pc speakers)

 

Also every new employee must keeps programs, drawings and other documents in the proper folders and know how to comment programs, tools etc. so that others can run them as easily as possible. Part of a quality system.

I like the way you think.

[Bob W.]

From a nerd...

 

High-end computers for running high-end CAM systems. There is just no reason to save money on computing power when it comes to CAM programming. Big LCD displays (preferably two). One computer per CNC machine (data transfer, editing and internet surfing).

Intranet and a central server where all programs and CAD draftings are stored. An office A3 network scanner/printer to turn CAD papers digital. Also a network backup drive. Access to internet through a hardware firewall. Homepage and preferably extranet for customers. ERP software. A laptop to borrow for those employees who want to program outside the normal working time. A high resolution camera to take shots of all those complicated jigs. Also wouldn't mind a pair of active speakers for music listening (not those crappy plastic pc speakers)

 

Also every new employee must keeps programs, drawings and other documents in the proper folders and know how to comment programs, tools etc. so that others can run them as easily as possible. Part of a quality system.

We are doing a lot of that already though we will do a much better job of it when in the new space.  We have a central server with ERP but our web presence is lackluster.  One thing that really works well here is we have one machine definition, control definition, and one post for each machine and they are all located on the server and Mastercam is pointed to those.  When we want to change the post for a process refinement there is only ONE post to change, not five copies on five different computers.  We also only have one tool library that covers all machines and it is the master.  Tool 603 will ALWAYS be a MA Ford 3/8" 180 series end mill in a Command C4Y3-0375 shrink fit holder with a 1.3"+ stickout regardless of which machine it is in and the same goes for every tool number.

[?Mark]

Hey Bob,

I'm curious about that tool #603.

I'm big on libraries and due to the size of the shop and variety of products I have created a bunch of them.

How do you implement that tool# into the job? Do you use extended offsets of the machine (#603 in pocket #105), or do you renumber the tool per machine once you pick it from library?

 

Tia

[Bob W.]

Hey Bob,

I'm curious about that tool #603.

I'm big on libraries and due to the size of the shop and variety of products I have created a bunch of them.

How do you implement that tool# into the job? Do you use extended offsets of the machine (#603 in pocket #105), or do you renumber the tool per machine once you pick it from library?

 

Tia

Hi Mark,

 

We only have one tool library.

 

Tool #603 (or whichever tool number) will be brought from this master library into the machine group in Mastercam as tool #603 and programmed as such.  When the tool is loaded into the machine it is loaded as tool #603.  On the horizontal machines we might be running three unrelated jobs (different sides of a tombstone, etc...) that all use tool #603 and it that tool is loaded, it is golden and ready to rock and roll.  Right now we have something like 710 tools in our tool library and if we go buy a new tool we have never used before it will be entered as tool #711.  We will also create a new tool number if we are running into issues where the tool stickout needs to be increased as a tool number represents a specific cutter, holder, and stickout combination.  We have tools for the air spindle that start at #9000.  The post processor and the machine (via macros) detects this (T#>8999) and prevents spindle rotation or posting of M3 commands as we don't want the spindle spooling up with the air spindle in there.  It is automatic, create a tool for the air spindle by giving it a tool number greater than 8999 and the post and machines handle the rest.  This strategy works great on the makinos because they can take tool numbers up to 9999 as standard.  It really played into the decision to get rid of the Haas because it was a major hassle to always be renumbering tools for projects getting moved to that machine.  We are constantly juggling projects on the machines and this really makes it easy and safe.  If the tool number called for in a new program is loaded in the machine there is no need to check it, just load the fixture, program, and go.  It will really help when we move to the cell system.

 

I have to give major props to my programmer Kevin as he contributed a great deal to developing this system and implemented it over a few months.  Loooong, tedious work but WELL worth it.

[?Mark]

Looks like a great system that I could implement here...

How do you deal with tool #603 if your changer has 240 tools?

On our makinos all tools have h9 and d9 offsets. Those specific numbers are always pulled from tool number, so even if a tool is t250 h9 d9, it knows to use t250 h250 d250.

How do you go about it on other equipment?

 

TIA 

[Bob W.]

Our machines have 60 pots in the carousel and the pot number doesn't need to match the tool number so tool 603 could be in pot 35 and tool 3 could be in pot 36, etc...  We use the tool manager on the Makino side of the control so all tools are Txxx H1 D2.  All of our machines are Makino and this system works on each of them.  We would not buy a machine that wouldn't support this strategy unless there was a very compelling reason to do so.  There would be a big drop in productivity it we were constantly renumbering tools, changing pull studs in holders, etc...  The tooling strategy is at the foundation of how we do things here and we have really built our processes around it.

 

In the new shop I plan to have a tool crib with rack mounting for 1200-1500 tool holders.  Each tool number will have its own slot so if a tool is built up and we need to find it for setting up a machine we will know exactly where to look.  We rarely break down tools after jobs unless it is a seldomly used tool and we know it will not see use again for months.  We also plan to implement RFID for quick tool identification among other things (reduce operator errors, fat finger, track tool life, etc...)

[?Mark]

That makes it easy. I didn't know that you are an all makino shop.

We have a cluster of machines. .8 Niigata, Mori, makino....

Wouldn't work so easy.

Thanks for sharing!

You have a good plan there Bob :-)

[?Mark]

I wonder if Matsuuras would work with this system

[Guest]

That makes it easy. I didn't know that you are an all makino shop.

We have a cluster of machines. .8 Niigata, Mori, makino....

Wouldn't work so easy.

Not necessarrilly true. As long as you can assign tool numbers to a pot, you can AND SHOULD be using a tool library. :

 

 

I wonder if Matsuuras would work with this system

Matsuuras don't care what tool is where. You set it all up in the tool table in the MIMS or Handy-Man screeens. I'd STRONGLY suggest using H#517 and D#517. So shoudl you ever choose to use Tool Life Management, you don;t need to make ANY change to your programs.

[jlw™]

Our tool situation is a fustercluck.  I have libraries of tools and holders created for groups of machines and then some machines individually (only have 2 dual contact machines and they don't share!!!).

 

Wasn't too bad and well worth the work.  Click and pick.  That easy and with Verisurf setup sheets and X+ tool list I click and print my sheets.  No hand editing any where unless I have to create a new tool.

[Bob W.]

Here are a few things we have done in the shop as the project has evolved.  Shortly after we had taken delivery of our second horizontal machine we got the 800 amp three phase power installed so we are good for power for a long time.  I decided against the skylights and went with a proper metal roof though we do have a ton of windows as I really like natural light.  There will be three air HVAC systems in the new shop.  One for the main area, one for various rooms built off the main area, and one dedicated to the inspection room.  Other than the main shop area we have a part storage room (in process, over run, etc...), Parts cleaning/ deburring room, grinding/ buffing (dirty/ dusty) room with filtered air,  utility room, compressor room, and bathroom.  The floor is sealed concrete and 8" thick throughout and rebar on 18" centers.  If we have issues we will have pads poured for the machines once we are confident where they will permanently set.  We are currently running on 4" concrete with no rebar so anything will be a huge improvement.  We have one 12' x 12' lift up door and plan to install two Bigass fans for air circulation.  We are hoping to move in by late October because that is when we take delivery of the new CMM and there isn't any room for it in the current shop.

[The Cathedral]

centralized beer distribution system. Like for compressed air, only beer.

[jlw™]

centralized beer distribution system. Like for compressed air, only beer.

Wonder if they'll hire, I have the unusual skill set of programmer AND beer tester.

[Newbeeee™]

^^^ so what do you do for the doughnuts???

[jlw™]

Not so good at doughnut testing, takes me 3 or 4 tries to even get close to telling if they're good.

[bigprody]

If I can jump back to the tooling part of the discussion for a moment. Bob you and I have similar thoughts on tooling. We also have spent a bit of time creating a tool library with assemblies that are standard, (over 700 assemblies). Also to go along with this we have built an extensive operation library for our commonly used ops. We build progressive dies, a lot of standard screws and dowels and such. All of our tools are given an ID #, using the manufacturer # in the tool definition. I wrote a windows app that tracks the ID #'s in the tool changer and in the program to be run. It will search and replace the T,H,D values for each program to match what is in the machine. Everything we do is one off it works well for using resident tooling. The biggest problem we have right now is that X9 seems to always ignore duplicate tool checking when importing ops. If I import 4 different drilling ops that use a 1/2 spot I get four 1/2 spots in the tool list. It did not do this in X7. We are spending a lot of time deleting and reassigning tools in X9. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this.

 

BTW sounds like you are setting up a nice place for yourself.

[Mike@Lustre]

Pfffftt.

We have 11 cncs in 1600...

 

 

Yeah where I am we are around that for sq footage in the machine shop , we have 2 vertical mills , and 4 lathes and a manual lathe and Bridgeport type mill . We desperately  need more room as well , as we really could use a couple more lathes to keep stock in the bins .

[Bob W.]

Pfffftt.

We have 11 cncs in 1600...

How do you do it?  Also, you probably have a pretty good AC unit.  Our machines generate so much heat we had 4 tons of AC and couldn't keep it under 85 degrees on a 90 degree summer day.  The Makinos generate some serious heat but it was never an issue with the Haas machines.  If the weather will not allow opening doors (raining/ snowing sideways) we have to run AC in the dead of winter to keep things around 75 degrees.  Funny to be running AC on a 20 degree day...